Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
While I expressed similar sentiments earlier in post #91, I'm not as quick to absolve the U.S. Government from any culpability in the matter. The Newlands Resolution (1898) "to provide for annexing the Hawaiian Islands to the United States" is somewhat problematic. The "authority" of the Republic of Hawaiʻi stemmed from the January 17, 1893 "Proclamation of the Committee of Safety." Unfortunately, the main purpose of the so-called "Committee of Safety" was to abrogate the Hawaiian monarchy and form a union with the United States. Thus, the culpability of the United States lies in the fact that it allowed the "union" with Hawaiʻi to proceed after previously rebuffing it.
Sausage-making is often an un-sightly and sometimes distasteful process. Making Headcheese lunch meat from a pigs head is even worse.
But in the end, the end product is well worth it.
The same thing can accurately be said about Hawaiian statehood. Yes, there were trials, tribulations, murders, ravages and savages along the way, starting with, apparently, the Tahitian invasion, through Kam and the displacement of the Monarchy that came to power using the same use-of-force tactics that are complained about when it was their turn to fall.
However, can anyone say that Hawaii is NOT better off, much better off. Can anyone say that mankind is not better off. Hawaiians got access to technology, metals, electronics, medicines etc., and the world got a playground to refresh and renew their spirits, and the US military bases there help the US preserve and defend the Peace, and to quash evil when it raised its ugly head back in the '30s.
Japan, a feudal state before, started a war, and in the end, had its ass-kicked. However, it emerged from that experience, and embracing the sort of reconstruction the US does after defeating an enemy, a fully-modern thriving, world-leading nation. They did not resist, they did not complain, they moved forward to their own and the world's betterment.
There is a lesson in there somewhere that some refuse to take to heart.
I don't think anyone is saying its just caucasians? But we are talking about Hawai'i and how it became a state and the illegal overthrow. I believe i need to make clear, i could care less what type a government the kanaka moali would want, my argument is to give Hawai'i back to her people and let them decide which direction to go.
Further old behavior isn't old of your still doing it. Something to think about.
Your definition of "her people" is quite selective, and exclusive. The HbH equivalent of a poll tax, or literacy test.
There is two histories written, the conqueror and the conquered. Which is correct? Some of the things said here were said when we conquered the Native Americans and what we are currently saying now when we are at war with iraq and terror. The native americans were more advanced in natural medicine and understanding and cooperating with nature rather then conquering it. The hawaiians were the same with nature and were advanced in navagation and other areas. Whos is the savage? That is the matter of personal opinion. But our education insitutions do not teach history from both perceptions. Thus controlling ones perception of what is normal, right and just. Please branch out and read other non traditional history books, you may become like myself and start asking "In hawaii, why is it at every step from the owerthrow to statehood there is something controversial and unethical happening?" Then ask yourself if you were in a personal business agreement or a lawsuit and this stuff happened?
It looks like its going to be 80 today and the sun is out and there is a nice breeze( like the tradewinds) comming thru my apartment. Later tonight we have the starlight parade comming by my apartment bldg. A day like home. Aloha guys, have great day.
There is two histories written, the conqueror and the conquered. Which is correct? Some of the things said here were said when we conquered the Native Americans and what we are currently saying now when we are at war with iraq and terror. The native americans were more advanced in natural medicine and understanding and cooperating with nature rather then conquering it. The hawaiians were the same with nature and were advanced in navagation and other areas. Whos is the savage? That is the matter of personal opinion. But our education insitutions do not teach history from both perceptions. Thus controlling ones perception of what is normal, right and just. Please branch out and read other non traditional history books, you may become like myself and start asking "In hawaii, why is it at every step from the owerthrow to statehood there is something controversial and unethical happening?" Then ask yourself if you were in a personal business agreement or a lawsuit and this stuff happened?
Cont nxt pt
You might as well research the ethical implications of a shark eating a seal. It happens, it happened, it will happen again, and it can't be un-happened. Move forward. Hawaii, is and will remain a state - period (well unless China, N. Korea or Putin takes it by force).
All the quacking, teeth gnashing, moaning, groaning and carping won't un-digest the seal. The only question that remains is will you, like the Japanese, move forward from their point of departure, or stew in your own lamentations of how things aren't and won't ever be.
Shall we sell Alaska back to the Russians for the same price (adjusted for inflation)?
...my argument is to give Hawai'i back to her people and let them decide which direction to go.
Ok, so I guess you are saying that Hawaii should go back to the people from Marquesas. Well, they are dead. So, you must then think their ancestors should get to have Hawaii. I am curious, how many people who are currently living in Hawaii, are direct descendants of the people from Marquesas who originally (if they were truly the first) came to Hawaii and had it stolen from them?
Ok, so I guess you are saying that Hawaii should go back to the people from Marquesas. Well, they are dead. So, you must then think their ancestors should get to have Hawaii. I am curious, how many people who are currently living in Hawaii, are direct descendants of the people from Marquesas who originally (if they were truly the first) came to Hawaii and had it stolen from them?
You are attempting to use logic, where logic never goes (as am I).
Ok, so I guess you are saying that Hawaii should go back to the people from Marquesas. Well, they are dead. So, you must then think their ancestors should get to have Hawaii. I am curious, how many people who are currently living in Hawaii, are direct descendants of the people from Marquesas who originally (if they were truly the first) came to Hawaii and had it stolen from them?
I think HbH will have to institute Racial Purity Tests like Adolf and Company did back in the 30's in Deutschland. Sig Heil.
I think HbH will have to institute Racial Purity Tests like Adolf and Company did back in the 30's in Deutschland. Sig Heil.
Your the one who believes in a superior race! Might is right! White male dominant power philosophy. Welcome to the new nazi party.
Welcome back conshelf, Poisiden, twin 50s, etc etc etc.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
