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If you steal my wallet, then you are guilty and should be held accountable. However, my great grandchildren should not be able to hold your great grandchildren accountable for your actions long after we have both been dead.
It's that simple.
So basically what your saying is it wasn't wrong, because it was our ancestors actions, eventhou today we have benefitted from what our ancestors did and really native peoples for the most part are still paying the price? Just want to make sure i understand you?
No, DOI is not intruding on kanaka processes, it came to invite kanaka input to US processes, because it seemed like that was what was wanted and needed.
This is the Obama administration's "fact-finding" mission to see if it's worthwhile to do an "end run" around the U.S. Congress to achieve the main aim of the defeated Akaka bills -- "tribal status" for kānaka maoli. The State of Hawaiʻi passed it's version of the Akaka bill (SB 1520) way back in 2011 and hardly anyone paid any attention to the portion of it that didn't deal the the "Native Hawaiian roll." SB1520 CD1.DOC
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Originally Posted by OpenD
And yet, he was one of the first to speak, along with others of his ilk, and I think that just hurts the prospects of any meaningful dialog occurring.
If you've ever met Bumpy, you'd might think twice about telling him to "sit down and shut up" (unless you have some pretty "beefy" bodyguards).
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD
This is perhaps the oddest thing to me about the current debate, this kanaka assertion that "we are not a tribe." And yet, when I look at the definition of the term, I see a concept that is completely relevant to discussions about restoring the traditional Hawaiian Monarchy.
Tribe: a social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader.
It's the only explanation I can think of, that kanaka maoli are rejecting the way DOI has dealt with Native American tribes in the past, rather than the actual concept of kanaka maoli people being a tribal group. I don't blame them for their distrust, but I think accepting designation as a tribe is the only open pathway to a legal resolution which is remotely available to the current administration, or even likely in the future.
In terms of Hawaiian history, the monarchy was an bit of an aberration. Think about how kānaka maoli were organized prior to the Hawaiian monarchy -- multiple "chiefdoms" that occasionally warred against each other. Instead of a single "tribe" of 600,000 potential members, kānaka maoli might require multiple "tribes." As American Indians have the Navajo, Cherokee, Sioux, Apache, etc., kānaka maoli might need to have the "Waiʻanae," the "Waimānalo," the "Hāna," the "Keaukaha," the "Miloliʻi," the "Moku Honu," etc. each with its own leader(s) and autonomous organizational structure.
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Originally Posted by OpenD
Hopefully, but there are a few rabble-rousers who are beginning to stir the pot pretty well now, especially among young kanaka maoli people. If they do start something, I think it will stir up a huge pushback response from the other 80% of the Hawaiian populace, and then maybe we'll have a repeat of US Marines being called in to preserve the peace and lawful order, and put down the insurgency. What a huge tragedy that would be for Hawai'i.
If Hawaiian "terrorist" groups sprouts up, some of the "targets" might be located somewhere within the continental United States, instead of Hawaiʻi. It's not as if all kānaka maoli are easily distinguishable from other ethnic minorities in the U.S. So not only would it be a tragedy for Hawaiʻi, it would probably be a tragedy for the United States as well.
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Originally Posted by OpenD
This is what I saw happen... the CEO of the Office of Hawaiian Affairs sent Secretary of State John Kerry a letter asking for a clarification of Hawai'i's legal status from the viewpoint of the US Government. Then his Board of Directors rescinded the letter, saying he did not have authorization from the Board to send it. Then they had a marathon meeting in private to try to resolve it, etc. The resulting kerfuffle brought attention to President Obama's unfulfilled campaign pledges about seeking sovereignty for native Hawaiians... something he might be able to accomplish by executive action utilizing existing laws that recognize Native American tribes. So the Department of the Interior, the Federal agency tasked with handling Native American affairs, put together a fact finding mission, to gather information about what people of kanaka maoli heritage, both on the islands and on the mainland, have to say about the issues.
Keeping in mind that this is an "election year," there's more going on "behind the scenes" than "meets the eye."
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Originally Posted by OpenD
But the radicals want to shut it down, as if they and only they can unilaterally dictate what will happen. Sadly for them, that attitude will almost certainly doom the efforts to achieve anything meaningful during the balance of the current administration. In other words, demanding change, but then refusing to cooperate with the legally constituted process of change is completely counter-productive. There's just no cheese at the end of that tunnel.
It's simply too early and there's no need to rush. Kānaka maoli have been seeking the restoration of sovereignty for the last four or so generations. So what's another few generations, if that's what it takes to bring everyone "up to speed" and accomplish things peacefully?
Your quote: Some leaders in the Hawaiian sovereignty movement realized that they could make more money as "activists" than they could as doctors, lawyers, college professors, businesspeople, etc. For instance, last year, the average Office of Hawaiian Affairs worker made $60,786, while the trustees received $55,440 for what's essentially a part-time job. End quote:
Yeah i don't like it either, But can you blame them? These are the rules to the game that others put in place. Remember any inequality in our society, the reason its there is because someone can or has profit from it. Thats why you will never see equality or the end to homelessness etc, we could solve any equity tomorrow we have the resources. But don't and won't because there is no profit in it and those who hold the true power won't let it happen.
You mean the $1 per year lease rent for a Hawaiian Home Lands residential lot?
Sounds like a good gig to me.
Gee more than 1.8 million acres of land was ceeded land in trust, you gave approximately 200,000 acres of there own land for kanaka to have homes. Gee Mr Haole man mahalo for your generosity. The fact that you own 99% of the islands and 1.6 million acres of the ceeded lands not good enough for you? My cousins should be greatful that you only charge a dollar for there land and that you most graciously gave back.
Gee more than 1.8 million acres of land was ceeded land in trust, you gave approximately 200,000 acres of there own land for kanaka to have homes. Gee Mr Haole man mahalo for your generosity. The fact that you own 99% of the islands and 1.6 million acres of the ceeded lands not good enough for you? My cousins should be greatful that you only charge a dollar for there land and that you most graciously gave back.
Me? Why thank you
Native Hawaiians are lucky to use any Ceded Lands at all - as those were Crown Lands. Native Hawaiians who owned Fee Simple land at the time the Monarchy was overthrown kept their land.
Native Hawaiians are lucky to use any Ceded Lands at all - as those were Crown Lands. Native Hawaiians who owned Fee Simple land at the time the Monarchy was overthrown kept their land.
Your Welcome.
I pray to an all merciful god that someday he will let me meet you in a dark alley someday.
As a newbie to this site, I would like to express my gratitude to the posters sharing their knowledge, experience and insight. I have learned a lot by reading through past threads and look forward to learning more. I also really appreciate the citations to sources.
Native Hawaiians are lucky to use any Ceded Lands at all - as those were Crown Lands. Native Hawaiians who owned Fee Simple land at the time the Monarchy was overthrown kept their land.
Your Welcome.
Im wondering if you can help me with something ok? Can you tell me why there is a large gap between the wealth of minority households and White households within the United States. The Pew Research Center's analysis of 2009 government data says the median wealth of white households is 20 times that of black households and 18 times that of Hispanic households. In 2009 the typical black household had $5,677 in wealth, the typical Hispanic had $6,325, and the typical White household had $113,149? Im wondering is it because they are all lazy and don't want to earn there wealth? Just wondering?
Im wondering if you can help me with something ok?
Uh. Uh. Help you?
Let me ponder that.
Hmmm, nope. I can't help lost causes.
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