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Old 08-14-2012, 03:24 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,942 posts, read 81,826,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Yes, it moved millions in street cars with people squeezed into smelly streetcars and buses with no air conditioning during hot Russian summers. The only thing about it that was good was the price: it was really cheap.
If this is your idea of excellent transportation system then I can't really help you
The West, at least the US, didn't have air-conditioned buses back then, either. The transportation system in most US cities was, and still is, laughable. LA didn't even have a public transportation system back then. LA went through most of the 2nd half of the 20th Century without public transportation at all. Incomprehensible to Europeans.
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
This strikes you as odd because you're used to Western city planning. The USSR was in its own world, it was a different mentality.

One thing I appreciate about city design in Russia is that every neighborhood has grocery and other food stores within walking distance. Very practical. I wish US cities were designed that way. A few towns are, like Berkeley, CA, but it seems rare.
Are you kidding? All of the American cities from the colonial era are built around neighborhoods however once the cities grow bigger and older they all develop dedicated centers for business, art and entertainment. Are you saying in Moscow theaters are evenly spread around the entire city?
Or maybe you think there are not stores in residential parts of American cities?
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
In Moscow, during Soviet times - no. May be they were not spread "evenly" since many of them were built in the old part of the city. You could find Soviet ministries ( and other offices) at different addresses, although the majority of them were concentrated in the old part of Moscow, or what's called the center of Moscow. However pay attention - center of Moscow is not American equivalent of downtown.
Why not? There is plenty of residential buildings all over Manhattan and even the Financial District. I just think you haven't seen enough to make such comparison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Still plenty of residential buildings nearby, courtyards and boulevards, grocery stores and kindergartens.
Same in New York.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
There was no "financial district" ( although a lot of government offices were located in the center of Moscow, ) and no "theater district." Bolshoy and Maly threaters were built in proximity to each other already in pre-revolutionary times, but the rest of Moscow theaters were at different locations.

Because in Soviet Times there was no financial industry and big business.
Still government offices were in pretty much the same location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I can think only of couple of "islands" without residential buildings around, and they'd be relaively close to the Red square.
Find one in Manhattan

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Comparing to American system of public transportation, it was definitely excellent, I don't know what complaints you might have now.
I don't think there is single American system of publci transportation and single American system but comparing New York's to Moscow I don't think Moscow's is in any way better than New York's. New York's subway is bigger and operates 24/7 365 days a year.

You are hillarious in your comparisons as if you never see more than one American city or compared a small American city to Moscow which is absurd. Compare New York to Moscow

Last edited by rebel12; 08-14-2012 at 04:56 PM..
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
This is what makes a vibrant, healthy "downtown". In the US, when city centers were depopulated and people moved to the suburbs, downtown areas became prone to crime. Since then, a few cities have succeeded in revitalizing their downtown, and attracting residents back. Seattle is an example of this.

Russian cities are more European in that respect.
Have you ever been to New York? When you compare Moscow to American city you can't compare it to Boston or Houston. New York's Manhattan is far more lively than any part of Moscow.
Even when you make a statement comparing Moscow to European cities you'd can't really compare it to London or Paris as these cities have centers for business and art just like New York.
Unless you want to compare Moscow to small European cities like Vienna which doesn't make any sense.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:04 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,505,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
The West, at least the US, didn't have air-conditioned buses back then, either. The transportation system in most US cities was, and still is, laughable. LA didn't even have a public transportation system back then. LA went through most of the 2nd half of the 20th Century without public transportation at all. Incomprehensible to Europeans.
There were many, many things in Soviet Union that were simply incomprehensible to Europeans Europeans never claimed they could understand Russia, to most Europeans Russia has been and still is "wild west"

Last edited by rebel12; 08-14-2012 at 06:24 PM..
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:13 PM
 
19,317 posts, read 16,019,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Why not? There is plenty of residential buildings all over Manhattan and even the Financial District. I just think you haven't seen enough to make such comparison.




Same in New York.




Because in Soviet Times there was no financial industry and big business.
Still government offices were in pretty much the same location.



Find one in Manhattan



I don't think there is single American system of publci transportation and single American system but comparing New York's to Moscow I don't think Moscow's is in any way better than New York's. New York's subway is bigger and operates 24/7 365 days a year.

You are hillarious in your comparisons as if you never see more than one American city or compared a small American city to Moscow which is absurd. Compare New York to Moscow
New York is the only city in the US that's comparable to European cities. ( Maybe couple of other places)
But those are exceptions, however the way other cities in Russia were planned was no different from Moscow.
I have no idea why are you arguing with obvious; American cities ( as a rule) are poor when it comes to public transportation, they are built on a car dependency, unlike European cities, Russian cities including.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:18 PM
 
19,317 posts, read 16,019,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
There were many, many things in Soviet Union that were simply incomprehensible to Europeans Europeans never claimed they could understand Russia, to most Europeans Russia has been and still is "wild west"
You are wrong again.
I've met enough of Europeans, who could understand Russia, in spite of the political system; some of them actually preferred to come on business trips to Russia, comparably to the US.
Quite honestly I was surprised to hear such opinion, so I asked "why."
A person told me that behind the facade of rigid political system he still saw the old culture, where in the US he said there was no particular culture, just programmed society.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:29 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,942 posts, read 81,826,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Or maybe you think there are not stores in residential parts of American cities?
I know there aren't stores in every residential neighborhood in many US cities. Certainly not within walking distance, if at all.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:34 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,942 posts, read 81,826,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
However pay attention - center of Moscow is not American equivalent of downtown.
Still plenty of residential buildings nearby, courtyards and boulevards, grocery stores and kindergartens.
There was no "financial district"
This is certainly not true in San Francisco's financial district. There was no residential space in Seattle's downtown until the city council made a point of revitalizing downtown. Still no grocery store, only the old public market. No residential buildings or grocery stores in the downtown core of the town where I live now. This is not unusual for downtowns in the US.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:38 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,942 posts, read 81,826,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
Have you ever been to New York? When you compare Moscow to American city you can't compare it to Boston or Houston. New York's Manhattan is far more lively than any part of Moscow.
Why limit it to NY or Moscow? If you're going to debate and compare cities, put it in the "World" forum. When I post on this topic, I have several Russian cities in mind, and various US cities in mind, too. You're narrowing the topic to NY and Moscow. No one said anything about NY until this page or so, the topic was broader. I've been thinking mainly, but not exclusively, about St. Petersburg all this time.

If you guys want to have a NY vs. Moscow debate, take it to "World".
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