LAPD Still Won't Get Vaccinated (Los Angeles: pension, penalty, showing)

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Maybe you should read this: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46745

What about it? I try not to give reading assignments here without at least some direction or comment of what the person should be taking away from a multi-page document. A report written by and for legislative support for vaccine mandates isn't exactly earth shattering on its own. It's like asking Coca Cola if Coca Cola is better than Pepsi.


Read from page eight. Also, I'll point this out again because there's so much reliance on Jacobson, that when all was said and done, nobody was forced to be vaccinated and the plaintiff paid the $5 fine. In other words, vaccine mandates aren't without limits. Establishing where all those limits reside is what is ultimately up to the courts to define. And covid19 vaccine litigation is still in its infancy. There is no slam dunk in any precedent. This won't be settled overnight.

[goodheathen]

I am opposed to ideology in general. Here I have attitude, aggressively contain a dangerous virus. Anything less has been shown not to work in any society like this. Mandates seem necessary, because too many people have crazed ideologies or simple lack of brains that make them resist responsible behavior. If I were running the city and thought I had to delay a mandate on city workers for a reason (maybe it's to work on a legal argument or line up replacements), I'd at least do something else in the meantime, like freeze raises for employees who are unjustifiably unvaccinated.

[mcp86]

Interesting but not surprised that people did the same thing with other vaccines, misusing VAERS data

https://medium.com/microbial-instinc...d-14fe22b2a65f

This isn’t the first time that post-vaccine death reports in VAERS have been misused. For example, during the 2015 measles outbreak in the U.S., claims of over 100 deaths caused by the measles vaccine circulated on the internet. The claim was based on VAERS data. But further examinations of health records, autopsy reports, and death certificates by the CDC and FDA found no causal relationship 1 between the measles vaccine and post-vaccine deaths.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

If I were running the city and thought I had to delay a mandate on city workers for a reason (maybe it's to work on a legal argument or line up replacements), I'd at least do something else in the meantime, like freeze raises for employees who are unjustifiably unvaccinated.

We're talking about unionized employees who work under a contract. You don't get to just change the rules at whim and skip the bargaining. It's not just LA where this is happening. It's a labor issue first.


A more sensible approach would be to incentivize vaccinations. Besides that, LAPD is over 70% covered now. There's a point where demanding 100% is unrealistic. There are going to be legitimate medical exemptions within those numbers. The original window for filing any exemption was very short, thus all the resistance. That's part of their lawsuit. It's a fair point.

[goodheathen]

If there's no contractual leeway in raises, then that's that. Maybe open contract negotiations on some other standard matter and tie it to vaccination.

70% is far from 100%. If someone is willing to lose his or her job or lawyer up instead of being vaccinated (natural immunity not a real hindrance there), money probably won't work. Most people do have a price and first 100 in a short span who get fully vaxxed get $1100 each is something I'd offer, but a much bigger version of that isn't financially viable for the city unless some rich donors step in.

It is easy enough to reassign to undesirable assignments or locations unvaccinated police officers. Of course said destination communities might get upset.

The idea of only delaying for I estimate 10,000 people in the face of expiring inoculation in segments of the general public and weather forcing gathering indoors is abhorrent and dereliction of duty by government.

[markg91359]

Originally Posted by joosoon

Though, you and others continue to miss that there are nuances within the decisions and written opinions of the judicial.

There are always nuances. However, compulsory vaccination laws do not violate the due process clause or any other provision of the constitution. I wouldn't dwell too much on the $5 in the Jacobson case. In 1905, $5 was a considerable sum of money. Massachusetts could have imposed a $500 fine and that still would have been constitutional.

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

I am opposed to ideology in general. Here I have attitude, aggressively contain a dangerous virus. Anything less has been shown not to work in any society like this. Mandates seem necessary, because too many people have crazed ideologies or simple lack of brains that make them resist responsible behavior. If I were running the city and thought I had to delay a mandate on city workers for a reason (maybe it's to work on a legal argument or line up replacements), I'd at least do something else in the meantime, like freeze raises for employees who are unjustifiably unvaccinated.

When you ignore the science, data, reason, and rationale because you desire certain groups to be mandated to get a covid shot while also ignoring concerns about the vaccine, natural immunity, and testing; that makes you an ideologue. These same people who you want to force a vaccination on are the same people who have been working tirelessly throughout the entire pandemic when there was no vaccine and there is zero evidence these workers were super spreaders of covid. When you believe you must be vaccinated to protect the vaccinated, you’re an ideologue. So we are going to fire all these first responders and health workers who are unvaccinated for our safety? That makes sense? Only an ideologue would believe that.

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by markg91359

There are always nuances. However, compulsory vaccination laws do not violate the due process clause or any other provision of the constitution. I wouldn't dwell too much on the $5 in the Jacobson case. In 1905, $5 was a considerable sum of money. Massachusetts could have imposed a $500 fine and that still would have been constitutional.

$5 is equivalent to $150 today. $150 fine is nothing compared to being fired for not getting a covid shot.

[City Guy997S]

I'd go this route:

No vax, no problem but if you get Covid/die from it.............NO BENEFITS! No healthcare related to it, no death benefits for your family.

[CA4Now]

Excerpt from a letter to the L.A. Times yesterday:

"In California, the average police officer salary is almost $105,000, and officers are not required to have a college degree.

In Los Angeles, pensions top out at 90% of final average salary at 33 years of service. If police officers don't want to serve and safeguard by getting vaccinated against COVID-19, they should either quit or be fired. Let others consider this lucrative career and pension without accumulating a huge college debt.

-Carla Bollinger, Newbury Park"