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I'm interested to hear more about your take on Torontonians versus Minnesotans. The comment below made me laugh. I'm not sure if it's true that many Torontonians are this way. It's a big city so I guess there's some of that big city aggression and snobbery as you put it, but I really don't have a clear sense of what Torontonians are like, and I've lived here a long time. Maybe I'll gain some perspective after I've left!
Hmmm, I wonder if there is someone who would like to actually collect some data from a few different city forums and see if there is any truth to this perception that Minnesotans are less friendly than people in other states. You could just do a poll on a few forums asking if people in that state are easy to make friends with or not, and whether they are less easy to make friends with than people in other states. I guess since I thought of it maybe I should do it, but alas, I'm too lazy... :P Maybe later...
I lived in the twin cities four 13 years before spending 3 in Toronto. I really liked Toronto at first for its multiculturalsim but eventually it was too much of a sleepy city for me. I lived in West end (Parklawn/lakeshore) which was pleasing to the eye but it was too much of a static place for me. What I really found annoying is the many agressive type A personalities and there lack of self control after they leave their seven figure jobs. People will do anything to avoid eye contact and will often display a shock reaction if your eyes accidentally met. I used to think the eye contact thing was a problem in MN but since I have been back, I find myself overwhelmed by the eye contact here. Now a slight disclaimer, its all about where you live in Toronto, the downtown/annex/Bloor west/Beaches areas are cool and feels just as artistic as the twin cities but many of the surrounding areas felt too suffocating for me. You drive around the GTA and you feel like you are in a matrix movie and can't escape but hop on a MN highway and its freedom central, maybe thats why I don't like Chicago either (a city Toronto was modelled after). I think having good friends or family members makes a difference anywhere you are and that was ultimately why I couldn't enjoy my stay in Toronto, I have tons of family/friends in MN and thats a big difference.
Thanks for giving me more insight into your perceptions of Toronto. It's interesting to hear what people think of the city. For me it's all I know so it's hard to say, at this point, what I think distinguishes the city, personality-wise. I will say, however, that I agree that there are a lot of Type A types in certain parts of the city, and that it is true that many people go out of their way to avoid eye contact or acknowledge the presence of others. I still can't quite figure out if it is a maturity thing, a generation thing, or a Toronto rudeness/big city thing. I like to acknowledge the presence of others (e.g., walking down a quite path in a safe area and encountering another person on a leisurely walk) but I find often people don't reciprocate. Maybe they are shy, distracted, suspicious of strangers...who knows. However, this is definitely more of a problem (I have found) with young people and more often with women than men.
I think it might be the case that Torontonians are less overtly friendly than Minnesotans. When you go to retail outlets or restaurants, employees often aren't what I would call friendly/polite. But, again, who knows if this is a Toronto thing or a big city thing.
Regarding Minnesota, so far I have been struck by the fact that the guy at the local bank where I'm moving in Minneapolis was very chatty on the phone and actually asked me about why I was moving to town and how I was getting there. I had a similar experience with my future landlord. Is this typical? I rarely, if ever, have had such experiences in Toronto, and I'm a native and I'm also friendly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar25
I lived in the twin cities four 13 years before spending 3 in Toronto. I really liked Toronto at first for its multiculturalsim but eventually it was too much of a sleepy city for me. I lived in West end (Parklawn/lakeshore) which was pleasing to the eye but it was too much of a static place for me. What I really found annoying is the many agressive type A personalities and there lack of self control after they leave their seven figure jobs. People will do anything to avoid eye contact and will often display a shock reaction if your eyes accidentally met. I used to think the eye contact thing was a problem in MN but since I have been back, I find myself overwhelmed by the eye contact here. Now a slight disclaimer, its all about where you live in Toronto, the downtown/annex/Bloor west/Beaches areas are cool and feels just as artistic as the twin cities but many of the surrounding areas felt too suffocating for me. You drive around the GTA and you feel like you are in a matrix movie and can't escape but hop on a MN highway and its freedom central, maybe thats why I don't like Chicago either (a city Toronto was modelled after). I think having good friends or family members makes a difference anywhere you are and that was ultimately why I couldn't enjoy my stay in Toronto, I have tons of family/friends in MN and thats a big difference.
Thanks for giving me more insight into your perceptions of Toronto. It's interesting to hear what people think of the city. For me it's all I know so it's hard to say, at this point, what I think distinguishes the city, personality-wise. I will say, however, that I agree that there are a lot of Type A types in certain parts of the city, and that it is true that many people go out of their way to avoid eye contact or acknowledge the presence of others. I still can't quite figure out if it is a maturity thing, a generation thing, or a Toronto rudeness/big city thing. I like to acknowledge the presence of others (e.g., walking down a quite path in a safe area and encountering another person on a leisurely walk) but I find often people don't reciprocate. Maybe they are shy, distracted, suspicious of strangers...who knows. However, this is definitely more of a problem (I have found) with young people and more often with women than men.
I think it might be the case that Torontonians are less overtly friendly than Minnesotans. When you go to retail outlets or restaurants, employees often aren't what I would call friendly/polite. But, again, who knows if this is a Toronto thing or a big city thing.
Regarding Minnesota, so far I have been struck by the fact that the guy at the local bank where I'm moving in Minneapolis was very chatty on the phone and actually asked me about why I was moving to town and how I was getting there. I had a similar experience with my future landlord. Is this typical? I rarely, if ever, have had such experiences in Toronto, and I'm a native and I'm also friendly.
Minnesotans are like that and they will bend over to help you (a rarity in Toronto), in fact yesterday I went for a bike ride to try out another gym and the lady I asked directions from became quite chatty and in the end says "be careful on the road as its a little crowded around this time." That might seem small but such compassionate words are priceless to a newcomer or returnee. Like you said people in Toronto for the most part won't "acknowledge" you unless you bump into them. Its not a rarity to be nice in Minnesota but some are nicer than others, its the sort of place people will invite you to their homes for food and offer you shelter for free if you can't pay. That said, it does not apply to everybody and there are some major nuts here and many do not look it but if you exercise universal precaution then a city girl like yourself should be fine. Bring your car if you have one, this is a automobile city.
Interesting. Thanks for your observations. Not bringing a car though...I've been strategic in choosing where to live so that I won't need a car. I'll be living in Uptown, very near an express busline to the U, and also in close proximity to all amenities. Even the route to the airport via transit isn't too bad (better than what we have in Toronto).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar25
Minnesotans are like that and they will bend over to help you (a rarity in Toronto), in fact yesterday I went for a bike ride to try out another gym and the lady I asked directions from became quite chatty and in the end says "be careful on the road as its a little crowded around this time." That might seem small but such compassionate words are priceless to a newcomer or returnee. Like you said people in Toronto for the most part won't "acknowledge" you unless you bump into them. Its not a rarity to be nice in Minnesota but some are nicer than others, its the sort of place people will invite you to their homes for food and offer you shelter for free if you can't pay. That said, it does not apply to everybody and there are some major nuts here and many do not look it but if you exercise universal precaution then a city girl like yourself should be fine. Bring your car if you have one, this is a automobile city.
Tondo80 said: For some reason, people in MN tend to get comfortable with a single set of friends early on, then isolate themselves socially. Where in, say Seattle or Portland, one can go to a basketball game or (in seattles case) a football or baseball game, and almost instantly have conservation spark up between people sitting around you, here, everyone keeps to their bubble.
If you come here with friends, or upon arriving you are placed in a spot with other newcomers who will also be looking for friends, youll do fine. Otherwise, button up for the ice storm.
I could not have said it better. I lived in 6 different regions of the country prior to moving to MN and this is the least welcoming, most lonely place ever. Wish the recession wasn't keeping me here. Life is too short for this nonsense. On the other hand, as a young, unmarried professional, you might do ok.
Do some research on Scandinavian culture, it is the basic culture of native Minnesotans. If you want a more direct Italian or Irish type of culture, look at the east coast instead.
I agree. Every state has its own 'flavor.' Beyond culture though, some attribute the aloofness too the cold?
Anywhere you are if you go looking for "nice", you will be greatly dissapointed. There are good and bad people everywhere and Minnesota is no exception. It will be hard for anybody to move to a new city with no family member or close friend. You will just struggle period because people will wonder why you are so eager to make friends. Everyone everywhere is just extra cautious and rightfully so. Its can be a dangerous world full of angels, wolfs, good samaritans and parasites.
Oscar25: I agree mostly, but a 'little' cynicism goes a long way. And while I'm "looking," couldn't I please have a place to hangout, like a coffee shop, serving good coffee, good energetic/learning people, THAT Austin, MN (bragging itself to be 26K strong with 7 exits to nowhere on I90) lacks there of? Please don't reply: I'm getting out of here this weekend!!
you are not serious are you? 3 hours? and you call that a move worthy of any life experience? see thats the problem with most people that is only apparent to outsiders
Re: 3 hours away! I agree "rover" it's all about the big picture (for those of us who have lived in multiple states). For me it'll be (this weekend) from Austin MN to Sioux Falls SD, and the difference: more people, amenities (like coffee shops), and jobs! It's still the Midwest (my current 'comfort' zone), but I believe that when you're too 'close' (or too familiar) to a situation (35yrs a MN native) it's time to 'get out' (once again)!! Wish me luck.
Re: 3 hours away! I agree "rover" it's all about the big picture (for those of us who have lived in multiple states). For me it'll be (this weekend) from Austin MN to Sioux Falls SD, and the difference: more people, amenities (like coffee shops), and jobs! It's still the Midwest (my current 'comfort' zone), but I believe that when you're too 'close' (or too familiar) to a situation (35yrs a MN native) it's time to 'get out' (once again)!! Wish me luck.
Good luck Tommy P. It sounds like your positive attitude will ensure your success! Keep us updated.
Re: 3 hours away! I agree "rover" it's all about the big picture (for those of us who have lived in multiple states). For me it'll be (this weekend) from Austin MN to Sioux Falls SD, and the difference: more people, amenities (like coffee shops), and jobs! It's still the Midwest (my current 'comfort' zone), but I believe that when you're too 'close' (or too familiar) to a situation (35yrs a MN native) it's time to 'get out' (once again)!! Wish me luck.
You are wrong. You were quoting "rovers" reply. We were speaking in terms of meeting new people... It doesnt matter if you move an hour or 34 hours away, its still hard meeting people when you know NOBODY regardless of "more people, amentities and jobs""...That's what we were talking about. Therefor, your post is moot.
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and you call that a move worthy of any life experience? see thats the problem with most people that is only apparent to outsiders
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