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One of the issues with DNA tests is that they might be flawed. Given that most blacks of the Diaspora who have some European ancestry get it from their father's side than it might be hidden if only their mother's female ancestors are taken into account (mitochondrial).
Other studies have estimated that up to 80% of AAs, and 20% of white Americans have Euro and Afro ancestry respectively. Maybe quite distant, so not visible.
But its obvious to most that AAs usually do not look like continental Africans, implying some degree of non African ancestry.
The argument that you are having is based on the "what do I call myself". In the USA one drop means that you are black. In Latin America one drop means that you fall into one of the scores of "mulato" categories suggesting that Denzil Washington is not black.
And why do you insist that everyone identify as black? A person that looks like Denzel Washington can have two very light skinned or mixed parents. 2 dark parents can have children of different skin colors.
Mulatto means mixture of white and black, so that's not denial of anything. It's simply claiming what one is.
Well in NYC Haitians live in neighborhoods with high Anglophone Caribbean black populations.
So I really do not know how relevant Napolean is. Are Haitians "French". when over 70% do not even speak that language, but a creole dialect with high levels of Africanisms?
LOL. Re read the entire thread before picking apart bits and pieces of what is written or posted.
I was simply explaining the simple fact of why and how Haitians are Latin Americans. Napoleon is very relevant as Haiti is Francophone nation.
And the majority of Haitian Creole is French based lexicons and French lexified. It's really not as African as you make it out to be lol. Study linguistics and you'll figure it out.
And yes MOST Haitians can speak or understand French especially since it's used and taught in schools and in government.
And many Haitians can relate to other Latinos and have even lived among them as well. It's all about intersecting identities and paridigms.
And why do you insist that everyone identify as black? A person that looks like Denzel Washington can have two very light skinned or mixed parents. 2 dark parents can have children of different skin colors.
Mulatto means mixture of white and black, so that's not denial of anything. It's simply claiming what one is.
Except I never hear people call people mulato in Latin communities, even the times I was in Latin America.
This obsession with mulato categorization is an outside thing, by people who have read books on Latin America written by the same few authors. People who like Denzel are called Black in Latin America, and do keep in mind depending where one goes, he could be the darkest person around.
CaribNY has an obsession with Dominicans, and lets that color his attitude on all of Latin America.
Except I never hear people call people mulato in Latin communities, even the times I was in Latin America.
This obsession with mulato categorization is an outside thing, by people who have read books on Latin America written by the same few authors. People who like Denzel are called Black in Latin America, and do keep in mind depending where one goes, he could be the darkest person around.
CaribNY has an obsession with Dominicans, and lets that color his attitude on all of Latin America.
Thanks for letting me know. I noticed the same thing too. I'm sure that this stuff is not as deep or complicated as ppl make it out to be on these forums lol.
Denzel Washington would definitely be recognized for his African heritage in many places in Latin America.
When I hear people use the term mulatto in Latin America, it was more to reference a skin color or a pet name or term of endearment.
Reason for this is that Panamanian West Indians are more likely to describe themselves as "black" and use this as an ethnicd racial identity. AfroLatin Panamanians are less likely to do this, so the conversation around "blackness" revolves around the West Indian descent population. Indeed there are Panamanians who would have one believe that these are the only "blacks" in that country. Antillanos acount for between 10-15% of the population, becoming harder to distingush as the group assimilates more and more with each generation, and indeed many no longer speak any English.
Most black Panamanians in Panama are of Afrocoloniales backgrounds, NOT antillanos.
Latin America does not have a one drop system like the U.S. does.
Yes it does. One drop of non African blood and one is no longer black. Denzil Washington will be considered mulato in most parts of Latin America, Cuba being the exception.
What do you mean? What are you implying by an highlighting an excerpt of what was written as showing my perspective? I was simply stating a fact and you ignored the rest of all that I wrote.
I was simply referring to the fact that people overlook the complex relations between DR and Haiti. And the animosity towards things Haitian stems from the Haitian invasion and occupation and during the time of Haitian rule, many Haitians raped Dominicans and suppressed Dominicans rights and cultures and imposed oppressive laws and taxes and lessened the presence of the Church and state etc. Many Dominicans disdain for Haitians stems from these historical facts and were passed down from generation to generation. Also xenophobia is not the same thing as racism.
It's a well known fact that Trujillo, and to am extent Balaguer had effects as well. But analyze all aspects of history.
The current Miss Dom Republic has a Spanish name and yet there is significant chatter about the fact that she won the contest. Some even going as far as to claim that she looks more like Miss Haiti than Miss DR. Clearly Dominians are NOT neutral about which phenotype that they think should be used as representative of their country.
Color is an issue in the DR that goes way beyond their spat with the Haitians. In any case the ill treatment of Haitians by Dominicans is a good deal more recent than that of Dominicans by Haitians.
Jim Crow ended in the USA in the late 60s yet AAs are told to "get over it". Yet Dominicans still use what Haitians did in the DR prior to 1844 as an excuse!?
Have you met all Afro-Latin peoples? Also, where are you getting your information from? 10% to 15% of Panama's population is NOT Antillano. The population of West Indian descent is a very tiny minority, albeit visible and vocal.
There are actually more blacks of Hispanic colonial Latin origins (afrocoloniales) than those of West Indian origins. Look up the Census results of Panama as well.
Also, the West Indian descent population has left in large numbers en masse to the United States.
Hispanic blacks, descendants of Spanish speaking colonial black Panamanian slaves from the Spanish colonial period are numerically larger in Panama and in addition they are more dispersed and scattered out all throughout Panama. They can be found in all areas.
And the problem is that people use semantics to overshadow the existence of other groups
Colombians are the largest immigrant group in Panama
!. Panamanians of West Indian descent are no longer immigrants. They have been Panamanians for at least THREE generations.
2. The people who you might consider West Indian might be confined to those who still adhere to the culture of the Anglophone Caribbean. This will be a small group. The majority of the Antillanos are much more culturally integrated into Panama, no great surprise as the bulk are descended from people who migrated 100 years ago. Indeed many no longer speak English.
3. Antillanos have a much more defined racial identity than do colonial blacks, which is why they are more connected to conversations surrounding blackness in Panama. Many of the colonial Afrodescendants place themselves in a mixed category. Some estimate that the Afrodescendant population of Panama might be a smuch as 30%, but the majority of the Colonial Afrodescendants do not identify as "blacks', even as most Antillanos do...maybe because they are less mixed, and come from a culture where "escape" from blackness is more difficult.
This information I know because I know several Afro West Indian Panamanians and there is still a large community of this group left in Panama City, Colon, and other areas connected to the Canal, as well as in the Bocas. Go behind any group in Panama involved in black empowerment and you will see the descendants of the Diggers. Indeed I have been told that Colonial "blacks" are uncle toms who run away from admitting a black identity.
Afro Colombian and black do not mean the same thing. Afro-Colombian is an ETHNIC group that includes many races and race mixture combinations.
It has been documented that more than 33% of the Colombian population is of recognizable Afrodescent.
Which is exactly my point. It is senseless in most parts of Latin America to determine who is "black", who ought to consider themselves "black", and who even cares about issues concerning "blacks".
Many see themselves as mixed and therefore escaping any problems faced by those who they consider to be "black". Indeed some even fear that this increased discussion about the issues of Afrodescendants might threaten the limited priviledge that they might have acheived when compared to those who they consider to be "black". This because it erodes the boundary between themselves and "blacks" reduicing their skin color priviledge.
I am not even sure whether an AfroColombian ETHNIC identity exists. Indeed how many caramel colored people in Cartagena feel any ethnic connections to the people of the Choco or even the darker skinned people from those maroon settlements in the northern part of Colombia?
There is no one drop rule in the USA anymore. It's all about what people choose to identify themselves as. Many ppl seem to hold onto the racist one drop rule even though it was only legally practiced in the USA from 1930 to 1967
Fact that most people in the USA who look like they have some African ancestry still call themselves black, even if those ancestries are more evident.
That is unless they are biracial. namely having parents from two different racial categories.
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