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American born people of color are more likely to have involvement in crime than do their foreign born (including Island PR born) peers.
Given that the PR population in NYC consists mainly of people who are 4 generation, when we look at the late teens/early 20s cohort, the group normally involved in violent crime, then this will suggest that they will have higher incarceration rates than do Dominicans. Dominicans in that age cohort tend to be either island born, or raised by parents who were.
When we have sizeable numbers of 3rd generation Dominicans in NYC then we can see whether the are less criminal prone than are PRs. After all the largest group of criminals in LA jails are Mexican Americans, contrasting with the Mexican population of NYC, which is among the least violent.
There have been changes in both welfare and in on the legal standards of drugs, and stop and frisked has been ruled unconstitutional. So by the time you have sizable populations of third generation Dominicans, the nation and NYC won't be the same place.
The new Dominican arrivals do not face the same discrimination Puerto Rican arrivals faced in the 50s and 60s when the civil rights act, fair housing act, etc all had not been passed. Today one can easily get services and legal help in Spanish, something that prior generations of recent Spanish speaking arrivals didn't always have.
It's not really fair to compare the two.
With that said if you go to the DR, I wouldn't call the island crime free. Far from it, so I don't know why you want to stereotype recent immigrants as goodie two shoes. Dominican government doesn't go after stuff like drugs and prostitution, and yes many recent immigrants are involved in those things. In fact mention you are going to the DR and many Dominicans will safe it's unsafe.
Also the generations who have been here longer are more likely to have ultimately had parents who are property owners or to be able to go to college, something that can be very difficult for first generation immigrants to do as they don't always ever acquire good English skills. This is even true considering the Creoles spoken in the Anglo Caribbean are not CONSIDERED ENGLISH by whites, and this can be an issue in the school system itself (in terms of how the teacher grades the student, how encouraging the teacher is towards the student, etc).
Also the generations who have been here longer are more likely to have ultimately had parents who are property owners or to be able to go to college, something that can be very difficult for first generation immigrants to do as they don't always ever acquire good English skills. This is even true considering the Creoles spoken in the Anglo Caribbean are not CONSIDERED ENGLISH by whites, and this can be an issue in the school system itself (in terms of how the teacher grades the student, how encouraging the teacher is towards the student, etc).
This is very true. I remember meeting a Guyanese woman some years back. This woman had to take remedial English. I'm like wtf, you speak English! Why do you have to take remedial English? But her English was not up to par with American English. Surprisingly, she was born in the states, but spoke with a broken accent.
They are taking over. They invade like cockroaches! Trying to create sovereign countries within this one! And the scaredy cat NYPD let them run around and bulldoze everything in their path
. Dominican government doesn't go after stuff like drugs and prostitution, and yes many recent immigrants are involved in those things. In fact mention you are going to the DR and many Dominicans will safe it's unsafe.
Well statistics have been furnished to indicate that immigrants are less crime prone than their US born counterparts. I simple explain why they are and you add additional facts when you suggest that past racism might have adversely impacted 3rd generation PRs the way that it mightn't 3rd generation DRs. Its likely that 3rd generation DRs will be less likely to think that the system is against them, and so personal effort is futile.
Immigrants are not the same as the populations from where they come. A graphic example of this will be the Indian and Nigerian immigrant populations. Even though the vast majority of people in India and Nigeria are poorly educated migrants from those countries are the most educated groups in the USA.
Immigrants tend to be more motivated than the average person who lives in their countries of origin. After all its easier to watch TV all day in the DR while a Dominican in NYC works 60 hours to be able to build a house and send money down for this person to indulge in this activity. No one is suggesting that there is no crime among immigrants. It is a suggestion that crime rates tend to be lower among immigrants as a whole, and especially so among undocumented migrants.
You do know that if an immigrant (who isn't a naturalized citizen) jumps a turn style it will be a fast trip back to where they come from. And extreme shame when they arrive as a "deportee". Their US born kids have no worry about that.
They are taking over. They invade like cockroaches! Trying to create sovereign countries within this one! And the scaredy cat NYPD let them run around and bulldoze everything in their path
And here comes Trump. At a similar stage in immigration Irish, Eastern European Jews and Italians were also despised with nativists making similar rants against them.
Refresh your brain about what lower Manhattan was like 100 years ago. Worse than the South Bronx is like today. Immigrants are achieving upward mobility at a faster rate than they did 100 years ago as the USA is now a more open society.
Well statistics have been furnished to indicate that immigrants are less crime prone than their US born counterparts. I simple explain why they are and you add additional facts when you suggest that past racism might have adversely impacted 3rd generation PRs the way that it mightn't 3rd generation DRs. Its likely that 3rd generation DRs will be less likely to think that the system is against them, and so personal effort is futile.
Immigrants are not the same as the populations from where they come. A graphic example of this will be the Indian and Nigerian immigrant populations. Even though the vast majority of people in India and Nigeria are poorly educated migrants from those countries are the most educated groups in the USA.
Immigrants tend to be more motivated than the average person who lives in their countries of origin. After all its easier to watch TV all day in the DR while a Dominican in NYC works 60 hours to be able to build a house and send money down for this person to indulge in this activity. No one is suggesting that there is no crime among immigrants. It is a suggestion that crime rates tend to be lower among immigrants as a whole, and especially so among undocumented migrants.
You do know that if an immigrant (who isn't a naturalized citizen) jumps a turn style it will be a fast trip back to where they come from. And extreme shame when they arrive as a "deportee". Their US born kids have no worry about that.
Indians and Nigerians come from countries were the official language is English, and the wealthy ones will have university degrees from those countries (or other English speaking countries) before coming to the US and getting graduate degrees. Mind you there are poor immigrants from India and Nigeria, but they come here in lower numbers.
They are very different from Latin American immigrants, as few people in Latin America speak English well, or Chinese immigrants (a wealthy Chinese may speak English or other foreign languages well, but the majority of the poor people do not).
People who don't speak English in many ways have a harder time. In many of the immigrant communities I group up in, there was a lot of prostitution and other forms of organized crime involving immigrants, particularly undocumented immigrants. After all if an undocumented person loses their job, it's not like they can get unemployment or food stamps. They will have to do what they have to do, and therefore there are definitely higher rates of prostitution (both female and male) than among the general population. The US gets high numbers of poor immigrants from Latin America, and this was true of China and Korea until the 80s, but economic developments in the 90s and 2000s brought a lot of wealth to China and Korea. Latin Americans who are doing well off have no reason to move to the US these days, unless they come here to study at a top university. Many of these people return home with their advanced educations.
It's very hard to generalize about immigrants because the socioeconomic profile of the immigrants arriving in the US vary from country to country, and English speaking immigrants for obvious reasons will have an easier time.
But even there, the language of the majority in the Anglo Caribbean is Creole, and this isn't considered English by white people, and there are problems there in the educational system in NYC (I've known white teachers who insist anyone who doesn't speak like them is wrong, and having a teacher like this can be extremely detrimental to one's future as not everyone can easily code switch, and some might not be able to do it at all).
I'm not saying no immigrants do well, clearly many immigrants do well and work hard and get good educations. However there are substantial barriers that can make this extremely difficult, especially if one doesn't speak English, and there are whole industries of organized crime that prey on these people and end up making them do things like prostitution (taking advantage of a person's desperation).
The US born kids of these immigrants will actually have it easier. As US citizens, if they get fired from a job they can get unemployment. They will be able to take advantage of legal protections that their parents could not. They are much more likely to be able to get an university education than their parents. Most poor Latin American and poor Asian (particularly from parts of Southeast Asia) immigrants who come here as adults never acquire the English language skills to be able to do college level work, and many of them are not really literate in their native languages. Most immigrants to the US DO NOT COME FROM ENGLISH SPEAKING countries, and I think you are ignoring that fact. Also a poor immigrant working 60 hours a week clearly has no time for school, but their US born children don't have that burden.
Last edited by NyWriterdude; 09-18-2016 at 05:51 AM..
Indians and Nigerians come from countries were the official language is English, and the wealthy ones will have university degrees from those countries (or other English speaking countries) before coming to the US and getting graduate degrees. Mind you there are poor immigrants from India and Nigeria, but they come here in lower numbers.
They are very different from Latin American immigrants, as few people in Latin America speak English well, or Chinese immigrants (a wealthy Chinese may speak English or other foreign languages well, but the majority of the poor people do not).
People who don't speak English in many ways have a harder time. In many of the immigrant communities I group up in, there was a lot of prostitution and other forms of organized crime involving immigrants, particularly undocumented immigrants. After all if an undocumented person loses their job, it's not like they can get unemployment or food stamps. They will have to do what they have to do, and therefore there are definitely higher rates of prostitution (both female and male) than among the general population. The US gets high numbers of poor immigrants from Latin America, and this was true of China and Korea until the 80s, but economic developments in the 90s and 2000s brought a lot of wealth to China and Korea. Latin Americans who are doing well off have no reason to move to the US these days, unless they come here to study at a top university. Many of these people return home with their advanced educations.
It's very hard to generalize about immigrants because the socioeconomic profile of the immigrants arriving in the US vary from country to country, and English speaking immigrants for obvious reasons will have an easier time.
But even there, the language of the majority in the Anglo Caribbean is Creole, and this isn't considered English by white people, and there are problems there in the educational system in NYC (I've known white teachers who insist anyone who doesn't speak like them is wrong, and having a teacher like this can be extremely detrimental to one's future as not everyone can easily code switch, and some might not be able to do it at all).
I'm not saying no immigrants do well, clearly many immigrants do well and work hard and get good educations. However there are substantial barriers that can make this extremely difficult, especially if one doesn't speak English, and there are whole industries of organized crime that prey on these people and end up making them do things like prostitution (taking advantage of a person's desperation).
The US born kids of these immigrants will actually have it easier. As US citizens, if they get fired from a job they can get unemployment. They will be able to take advantage of legal protections that their parents could not. They are much more likely to be able to get an university education than their parents. Most poor Latin American and poor Asian (particularly from parts of Southeast Asia) immigrants who come here as adults never acquire the English language skills to be able to do college level work, and many of them are not really literate in their native languages. Most immigrants to the US DO NOT COME FROM ENGLISH SPEAKING countries, and I think you are ignoring that fact. Also a poor immigrant working 60 hours a week clearly has no time for school, but their US born children don't have that burden.
There is still a lot of poverty in China, I'm guessing the Chinese immigrants to NYC span from very poor to very wealthy.
Also I wasn't aware people didn't consider Anglophone Caribbean dialects to not be English. I work with a lot of Caribbeans, and even when they speak to their family members on the phone it's obviously English they're speaking.
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