Crime in Philadelphia discussion (Penn: ATVs, robberies, summer)

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Hermit12

That's a lot of hoo-ha there in trying to deny that street life is the dominant culture in the African-American community. It is, whether you want to accept it or not.

I'm African-American, and I beg to differ.

This is a common mistake many make: Because ADOS ("American descendants of slaves," a term now used from time to time to distinguish the largest segment of Black Americans from their Caribbean- and African-immigrant counterparts) are disproportionately poor, the culture one finds in poorer Black communities is dominant.

If you read Elijah Anderson's "Code of the Streets" — Anderson, a Philly native, is a celebrated sociologist, formerly at Penn, now at Yale — you would learn that many young Black men in poorer neighborhoods are caught in a tug-of-war between "decent" and "street" orientations. Those who live in households with strong parents (or even grandparents, as was the case with a friend of mine who grew up in poverty in Trenton and has been diligently working his way out of it ever since I met him) usually manage to resist the lure of the streets successfully.

Were street culture "dominant", the block north of mine should be a lot noisier than it is, and I should hear gunfire every now and then, as I did on the other side of Germantown. Neither is the case: that block is as quiet as my own, and the only reason I don't hear crickets on it as I walk up it at night is because it has neither trees lining it nor houses with front yards.

Residents of more affluent Black communities may dress more like athletes than preppies, but they're not running up streets riding ATVs in packs. And the Black middle class is the biggest it's ever been right now.

Hip-hop may have come from the streets, but as it and the artists who grew famous producing it have matured, they have also shed much of their street edge. Consider Queen Latifah (Dana Owens), for instance.

I think one reason African-Americans have historically been reluctant to air our dirty laundry publicly is because the racists will use it to tar all of us with the same broad brush. You may say you don't fall into that bucket, but it's hard for me to distinguish you from those in it based on statements like that.

[Hermit12]

Originally Posted by marketstel

i'm african-american, and i beg to differ.

This is a common mistake many make: Because ados ("american descendants of slaves," a term now used from time to time to distinguish the largest segment of black americans from their caribbean- and african-immigrant counterparts) are disproportionately poor, the culture one finds in poorer black communities is dominant.

If you read elijah anderson's "code of the streets" — anderson, a philly native, is a celebrated sociologist, formerly at penn, now at yale — you would learn that many young black men in poorer neighborhoods are caught in a tug-of-war between "decent" and "street" orientations. Those who live in households with strong parents (or even grandparents, as was the case with a friend of mine who grew up in poverty in trenton and has been diligently working his way out of it ever since i met him) usually manage to resist the lure of the streets successfully.

Were street culture "dominant", the block north of mine should be a lot noisier than it is, and i should hear gunfire every now and then, as i did on the other side of germantown. Neither is the case: That block is as quiet as my own, and the only reason i don't hear crickets on it as i walk up it at night is because it has neither trees lining it nor houses with front yards.

Residents of more affluent black communities may dress more like athletes than preppies, but they're not running up streets riding atvs in packs. And the black middle class is the biggest it's ever been right now.

Hip-hop may have come from the streets, but as it and the artists who grew famous producing it have matured, they have also shed much of their street edge. Consider queen latifah (dana owens), for instance.

I think one reason african-americans have historically been reluctant to air our dirty laundry publicly is because the racists will use it to tar all of us with the same broad brush. You may say you don't fall into that bucket, but it's hard for me to distinguish you from those in it based on statements like that.

ok.

[AshbyQuin]

It is worth noting that the number of homicides, shooting victims, and shooting incidents have decreased, despite being the warmest and dryest winter in nearly a century. That's a plus!


The high theft rate makes people feel uneasy despite the decrease in violent crime, retail theft has gone up 40%, and Auto theft by a staggering 90%!

The gun violence in deep North and West Philly, while horrible, isn't deterring tourism and visitors or making people relocate; it's the petty theft, groups of teens causing trouble, muggings, occasional septa incident, and auto thefts in the greater Center City area or places where this type of crime was rare pre-pandemic. San Fransico is a perfect example of how a low homicide city gets a bad image due to the high theft/robbery.

Gun violence is often targeted between two criminals or drug dealers. Getting assaulted and robbed In Penn's Landing by a group of punks in ski-mask affects innocent people and leaves a bad taste in people's mouths as opposed to a drug dealer being gunned down in Kensington.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by AshbyQuin

It is worth noting that the number of homicides, shooting victims, and shooting incidents have decreased, despite being the warmest and dryest winter in nearly a century. That's a plus!


The high theft rate makes people feel uneasy despite the decrease in violent crime, retail theft has gone up 40%, and Auto theft by a staggering 90%!

The gun violence in deep North and West Philly, while horrible, isn't deterring tourism and visitors or making people relocate; it's the petty theft, groups of teens causing trouble, muggings, occasional septa incident, and auto thefts in the greater Center City area or places where this type of crime was rare pre-pandemic. San Fransico is a perfect example of how a low homicide city gets a bad image due to the high theft/robbery.

Gun violence is often targeted between two criminals or drug dealers. Getting assaulted and robbed In Penn's Landing by a group of punks in ski-mask affects innocent people and leaves a bad taste in people's mouths as opposed to a drug dealer being gunned down in Kensington.

All excellent points, and I agree completely. All the violence in Kensington might as well be in Timbuktu to the wine-swillers in Rittenhouse or the Swifties visiting the Linc for a concert.

Petty crime does seem to have a lot more of an impact as far as perceptions to everyday folks. The good news is with the city returning to much more of a normal baseline as far as daily foot traffic, the "eyes on the street" serve as more of a built-in surveillance system to deter more of that crime.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

I'm African-American, and I beg to differ.

This is a common mistake many make: Because ADOS ("American descendants of slaves," a term now used from time to time to distinguish the largest segment of Black Americans from their Caribbean- and African-immigrant counterparts) are disproportionately poor, the culture one finds in poorer Black communities is dominant.

If you read Elijah Anderson's "Code of the Streets" — Anderson, a Philly native, is a celebrated sociologist, formerly at Penn, now at Yale — you would learn that many young Black men in poorer neighborhoods are caught in a tug-of-war between "decent" and "street" orientations. Those who live in households with strong parents (or even grandparents, as was the case with a friend of mine who grew up in poverty in Trenton and has been diligently working his way out of it ever since I met him) usually manage to resist the lure of the streets successfully.

Were street culture "dominant", the block north of mine should be a lot noisier than it is, and I should hear gunfire every now and then, as I did on the other side of Germantown. Neither is the case: that block is as quiet as my own, and the only reason I don't hear crickets on it as I walk up it at night is because it has neither trees lining it nor houses with front yards.

Residents of more affluent Black communities may dress more like athletes than preppies, but they're not running up streets riding ATVs in packs. And the Black middle class is the biggest it's ever been right now.

Hip-hop may have come from the streets, but as it and the artists who grew famous producing it have matured, they have also shed much of their street edge. Consider Queen Latifah (Dana Owens), for instance.

I think one reason African-Americans have historically been reluctant to air our dirty laundry publicly is because the racists will use it to tar all of us with the same broad brush. You may say you don't fall into that bucket, but it's hard for me to distinguish you from those in it based on statements like that.

So very very true. For example, my best man at my wedding was from the south side of Chicago, Englewood to be precise and his mother kept him from running the streets. I used to go stay at his Mom's house on 73rd st and she still lived in a very rough area. When I would go visit Ron would meet me outside his Mom's house and wait until I got a parking spot. He would then go across the street and talk to the gang members he grew up with and let them know I was family and ask them to keep an eye out on my car. Never the slightest problem ever. So, Ron had every chance to get involved in the streets but then he would have had to deal with his mother. (Instead he went to college and became a purchasing agent and is quite well off.) She was in her 80s then and I still wouldnt cross her. She was in Church every chance she got and made dang sure her son stayed clear of the street life. Little old bonnet wearing Church lady who was the salt of the earth. She was respected in her community and on her block. Just one example, and that example is not isolated. Most black communities streetlife is that rather loud, boisterous minority. Most people in the communities are good, honest, hardworking people and unfortunately some of them are prisoners in their own homes due to the sins of the few.

Ive seen it go the other way too where the entire block seems like they are in on it. Dopeboys supporting their grandmothers from drug sales and thats just the way it is at times. Again, that is mostly an exception to the rule in my experiences. A lot of it can depend on just how bad poverty is in areas in question.

Then it can go even further, for example in Los Angeles where some neighborhoods are so insular that the vast majority are gang members or associates. Again, that's the minority as well because its select areas in LA that are this way.

Unfortunately, people rely on sterotypes for whatever reason. So if there is a group of guys chilling on the corner they must be drug dealers right? Because a group of people are outside dealing drugs even...that in itself is not representative of the neighborhood. That the choices of that particular group and no reflection on the block itself. What are people in the hood gonna do? call the cops? Yeah...that invites all kinds of retribution. So it's a tough spot to be.

[mphilly]

I don’t have any stats to back it up but it feels like this year they’ve been making more arrests than usual which is good news.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/kyree-...-20230613.html

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by mphilly

I don’t have any stats to back it up but it feels like this year they’ve been making more arrests than usual which is good news.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/kyree-...-20230613.html

I guess the question then becomes will the DA pick up the case and actually prosecute according to law....same problems here in Cincinnati atm.

[Hermit12]

Three supposed teens were in on a murder of a fifty year old man at 12th and Porter the other night during a carjacking. There's no fear of consequences from teens today ... it says a lot about our current policies on crime.

[Redddog]

Teens are absolutely out of control and running the city at the moment.

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Teens are absolutely out of control and running the city at the moment.

This is absolutely true. Too many wayward, unwanted and basically abandoned children. The worst of society have the most children. There is no way to solve for that.