Crime in Philadelphia discussion (nicest, ATV, robbery)

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by JamesJay64

Terrible because Center City is so crowded these days, it's a wonderful place to be EXCEPT when these roll through, which is pretty frequent. I don't know why they are treated like an unstoppable force of nature when they are not. I saw a video of a big pack of them in Brooklyn (maybe Queens?) and they were being tailed by a police chopper and many cruisers.

Yeah I don’t get it either. Monitor social media, be ready to surround meeting area (like a sting) and shut down roads for a few blocks. H&ll, they don’t make it all that difficult. They hang out doing burnouts in the middle of the road for like 30 minutes. Silently make a perimeter and then swarm in by closing the net from all sides. Bring in swat, state police, h@ll, National Guard if need be. I don’t get how this is continually tolerated. Confiscate all vehicles on the spot, all weapons on the spot (under inciting mob or riot). You might even be able to confiscate all money on perps as some sort of link to inciting riot. I mean they’re buying fuel with that money so I could see that seizable like drug money.

It would only take a few major busts where these individuals lose their bike, their handgun, and any money they’re holding at the time to make them think twice about doing that again. Losing a couple grand in an evening can’t be pleasant. Maybe they’ll find fun elsewhere in the future.

[JamesJay64]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

Yeah I don’t get it either. Monitor social media, be ready to surround meeting area (like a sting) and shut down roads for a few blocks. H&ll, they don’t make it all that difficult. They hang out doing burnouts in the middle of the road for like 30 minutes. Silently make a perimeter and then swarm in by closing the net from all sides. Bring in swat, state police, h@ll, National Guard if need be. I don’t get how this is continually tolerated. Confiscate all vehicles on the spot, all weapons on the spot (under inciting mob or riot). You might even be able to confiscate all money on perps as some sort of link to inciting riot. I mean they’re buying fuel with that money so I could see that seizable like drug money.

It would only take a few major busts where these individuals lose their bike, their handgun, and any money they’re holding at the time to make them think twice about doing that again. Losing a couple grand in an evening can’t be pleasant. Maybe they’ll find fun elsewhere in the future.

Exactly. It's not that hard to find out when they are planning to do something, my previous company sells automated tools that monitor social media for mentions of whatever keywords law enforcement wants, including with location information - so I know this could be figured out.

Regarding the actual response to this, you're spot on - use the national guard if needed. Isn't an escalated response warranted if they are defying police/vandalizing their vehicles? It seems like it's time to ramp things up, not go home and do nothing until next time. Are we waiting until an officer is injured? Of course, last year there were multiple instances of swarms of dirtbikes/ATV and idiots at these sideshows damaging police vehicles and nothing changed. It seems like it would be on Outlaw to request outside help.

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by Muinteoir

My solution: All unlawful ATV and dirt bike riders must complete a two week probational street cleaning project. Two birds with one stone.

The thing is this is not even remotely practical. The vast majority of these upstanding citizens don’t have valid drivers licenses, insurance, and probably don’t carry ID and will gladly offer a fake name. Not to mention many have active warrants open. So we can’t accurately ID them, many are seasoned criminals and know the system, but they’re going to show up for community service? Hahaha. Sure thing. Gotta hit them in the wallet to make this “fun, zero-accountability event” actually be a loss of a couple grand for them. Not so much fun anymore if you lose 2k.

[MPK21]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

The thing is this is not even remotely practical. The vast majority of these upstanding citizens don’t have valid drivers licenses, insurance, and probably don’t carry ID and will gladly offer a fake name. Not to mention many have active warrants open. So we can’t accurately ID them, many are seasoned criminals and know the system, but they’re going to show up for community service? Hahaha. Sure thing. Gotta hit them in the wallet to make this “fun, zero-accountability event” actually be a loss of a couple grand for them. Not so much fun anymore if you lose 2k.

Nor is the using SWAT, National Guardsmen etc not even remotely practical, in today's zeitgeist, it's impossible. Seizing black folks cars on the spot lol. You sure you live in Philly 2023 with these solutions?

The genie's been long out of the bottle on this.

[MPK21]

Originally Posted by JamesJay64

Exactly. It's not that hard to find out when they are planning to do something, my previous company sells automated tools that monitor social media for mentions of whatever keywords law enforcement wants, including with location information - so I know this could be figured out.

Regarding the actual response to this, you're spot on - use the national guard if needed. Isn't an escalated response warranted if they are defying police/vandalizing their vehicles? It seems like it's time to ramp things up, not go home and do nothing until next time. Are we waiting until an officer is injured? Of course, last year there were multiple instances of swarms of dirtbikes/ATV and idiots at these sideshows damaging police vehicles and nothing changed. It seems like it would be on Outlaw to request outside help.

Escalated responses? In 2023 Philly? That genie's way out of the bottle as well.

Loving this sudden get tough on crime and this other nonsense. Have you seen these crimes cuz otherwise you kept saying I've never witnessed any crime so it can that bad...

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by MPK21

Nor is the using SWAT, National Guardsmen etc not even remotely pracitcal, in today's zeitgeist, it's impossible. You sure you live in Philly 2023 with that solution.

Lol…. Yes, I’m sure I live, and have lived, in my city for a very long time. I’m also sure you have never lived in Philadelphia. it’s difficult to debate with you as you aren’t from here and really don’t have firsthand knowledge of the discussion residents are having. Anyway, whether you live in OH or ID, I’m still rooting for you to find some joy in your life Bro. Must be terrible to only find happiness in others’ pain. .

[MPK21]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

Lol…. Yes, I’m sure I live, and have lived, in my city for a very long time. I’m also sure you have never lived in Philadelphia. it’s difficult to debate with you as you aren’t from here and really don’t have firsthand knowledge of the discussion residents are having. Anyway, whether you live in OH or ID, I’m still rooting for you to find some joy in your life Bro. Must be terrible to only find happiness in others’ pain. .

This is the best bail out excuse...you don't live and never have lived in Philly...so I can't debate with you...lol...sounds more like someone that may be an adult on paper but otherwise...happiness in others' pain LOL

[Muinteoir]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

The thing is this is not even remotely practical. The vast majority of these upstanding citizens don’t have valid drivers licenses, insurance, and probably don’t carry ID and will gladly offer a fake name. Not to mention many have active warrants open. So we can’t accurately ID them, many are seasoned criminals and know the system, but they’re going to show up for community service? Hahaha. Sure thing. Gotta hit them in the wallet to make this “fun, zero-accountability event” actually be a loss of a couple grand for them. Not so much fun anymore if you lose 2k.

Lol, my suggestion was not all too serious. But for those who are "seasoned criminals and know the system," a $2K fine is not really appropriate.

[MPK21]

Originally Posted by Muinteoir

Lol, my suggestion was not all too serious. But for those who are "seasoned criminals and know the system," a $2K fine is not really appropriate.

Yet another missed joke.

[MPK21]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

The bills LBJ got passed (and JFK never would have had he lived) weren't, and aren't, "reparations." They were an attempt to fulfill the thwarted promise of Reconstruction — IOW, to finish the job the Union started in the Civil War.

"Payment of back wages for slavery" is a completely separate issue. That it's become a live one more than 150 years after it was all but* ended is more a matter of people's consciousnesses having been raised. And we can't say we weren't warned: none other than Thomas Jefferson wrote that one of the reasons that, once they got the freedom they deserved, Blacks couldn't live in the same country as the white Anglo settlers was "...the million injustices recalled by the blacks..." (see Notes on the State of Virginia, the only book he ever wrote)

*"All but" because there's a loophole in the 13th Amendment that allows slavery to be used as punishment for a crime.

Jefferson wrote "Notes'' in the context of and was referring to 1780s Virginia, before our first Constitution in 1787, when lots slaves were being emancipated by their owners and slave revolts were occurring in places like Haiti. Slavery has been around since the start of the human race so it's not unique to pre-Civil War U.S, the unique aspect of U.S. slavery was that it was racialized post-Decl of Independence and continues to be today; even Alex Haley's ''Roots'' story is a myth story line after all. At the time, Jefferson also stated that educating the former slaves was key if they stayed in the U.S.

This 238 year old out of context Jefferson quote is not applicable in a discussion about today's crime issue, that started in the mid-1960s, 180 years after the 1780s and 100 years after the Civil War. However, what is relevant is Jefferson stating that education was crucial in 1780s then...and remains just as crucial in a 2023 crime discussion, especially given the over the top violent crime issue taking its toll in the black community also known as black-on-black crime.