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You could bring up Birmingham and Jackson but it wouldn't be an apt argument since those two cities are much smaller than Phoenix.
Dallas absolutely has a larger minority population. It is 50% white with 30% white non Hispanic. Phoenix is 65% white with 45% white non Hispanic.
I find both cities themselves to be more liberal than Phoenix and I'd add Miami, Houston, Minneapolis, and Chicago. Possibly the major Ohio cities and Detroit as well. Phoenix at best feels very moderate but leans conservative to me.
I don't see how population changes the argument. His argument was they were more liberal because they had more minorities. Regardless of their size, both cities are significantly more diverse yet are more conservative. The point I was making is that a larger minority population doesn't by default make a city more liberal or conservative. Atlanta is larger and more diverse than Portland but Portland is much more liberal. There are a lot of factors that impact whether a city is more liberal or conservative.
The reason I find Atlanta and Dallas to be more conservative is due to multiple reasons not just one. Culture and history play a bigger factor than race in my opinion. Both Atlanta and Dallas are in traditional southern states that had significant slave driven economies and were members of the Confederacy. They are also have a larger evangelical presence and more hate groups according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Miami is more liberal and I had forgotten include that. Phoenix is too new of a city that contains mostly transplants from the midwest and west coast so it feels much more liberal to me. The only time I feel Phoenix is moderate is when I read about it the media.
I spent one year living in Phoenix and all in all, I did not like it there. But I'm not out to trash the city, I just want to be accurate and thorough with the good points as well as the not so good points. You should preferably visit any place before you decide to move there and not rely just on information that you've read on the Internet.
So here it is...
PROS
Pleasant climate from around October through around May. The summer heat is manageable as long as you drink plenty of water and don't walk around outside barefoot, lol. Seriously though, three or four
uncomfortable months are an easy trade-off for the other seven or eight months of glorious weather.
Beautiful desert environs. Gorgeous sunsets, desert flora & fauna (the high desert country as you head north of Phoenix is especially picturesque as you head towards Sedona or Flagstaff).
Dry air means no mold, mildew or car rust. Even better, very few mosquitoes or gnats.
Excellent infrastructure. A modern city, well-planned, well laid-out and easy to navigate. An extensive freeway system without any toll roads. For a city of its population size, Phoenix is surprisingly uncongested. Your commutes may be lengthy in terms of mileage but traffic usually flows pretty well. Even if you encounter a traffic jam, you can usually find an alternate route to get you to where you're going.
The roads are always easy to drive with no ice or snow or potholes to worry about, and the entire area (though surrounded by mountains) is very flat.
Very affordable housing and rents. One of the cheapest major metropolitan areas you will find anywhere in the U.S.
Well-connected to the rest of the country. A very good international airport (Sky Harbor) that is well-served by many airlines and domestic routes. The added presence of a feeder airport (Mesa-Gateway) means that airfares to/from Phoenix tend to be real bargains. Of course if you prefer not to fly, Phoenix is also within driving distance to many major metropolitan areas such as Las Vegas (5.5 hours), San Diego (7 hours) or Los Angeles (8 hours).
For sports fans, Phoenix is represented by sports teams in all four professional leagues (MLB, NBA, NHL and NFL)
Relatively clean. Although smog can be a minor problem at certain times of the year, I never found there to be much trash or litter around the city. Then again, this is probably because there aren't too many pedestrians around! (see Cons).
CONS
The people: rude, flaky, obnoxious, aggressive, uneducated, unsophisticated, meth-addicted, rednecky, racist and xenophobic. I need to stress that this is strictly my own opinion, but I found the locals to be at least one (or a combination of some or all) of the above.
Characterless. A giant sea of strip malls, chain restaurants, Orwellian neighborhoods and tract housing, all surrounding an empty shell of a downtown. Very commercialized and generic. Has the look and feel of a giant suburb, or a cluster of smaller suburbs. Lacks a certain cosmopolitan vibe.
Awkward, insular lifestyle. You often feel like you're living in a bubble, due partly to the intense climate and partly to the urban sprawl that makes you so dependent on your vehicle. You'll leave your air-conditioned house and step into your air-conditioned car, from there you'll scurry into your air-conditioned office or the air-conditioned supermarket or mall and then back in reverse order. If you have a pet, may as well potty train them. You can't let a dog or cat outside during the daytime for most of the year - they can suffer third-degree burns.
The area is very spread-out and little to nothing is within walking distance of your house or office. You'll find that you'll never really see or interact with your neighbors except to wave at them as your automatic garage door is closing. I always found it ironic how people ostensibly move to Phoenix for the weather, and yet once they arrive there, they really spend relatively little time outdoors.
Disgusting tap water. You might hear a local bragging to you that "Atlanta has a 30-day water supply, while ours is 30 years". Be that as it may, the quality of the H2O sucks. It's hard water, and whenever you wash your pots and pans you'll often find this weird residue that never seems to go away.
Subpar job market. Phoenix's economy was hit hard by the subprime mortgage crisis, indicating that the economy is not diversified enough. Arizona tends to rank high nationwide in unemployment, and it is also a right-to-work state with relatively low wages. Keep in mind that worker productivity is always going to be negatively impacted in such a hot climate.
Boring, lifeless downtown. With the exception of the NBA/NHL arena and MLB baseball stadium, downtown
Phoenix is strictly a business district with little or nothing in the way of entertainment or nightlife. To get your groove on, you actually have to head OUT of the city to the suburbs such as Glendale or Scottsdale. I found Phoenix to be a very odd city in this particular respect.
Very little cultural diversity. For a city with such a large population, Phoenix is sorely lacking in this category. The local idea of "diversity" is the city's many Mexican chain restaurants and a few tiny shops selling Native American jewelry. It's difficult to find any type of international cuisine there (other than Mexican, and even that isn't as good as the locals will try to claim). Sky Harbor Airport has no direct international flights anywhere outside of North America, except for a sporadic flight to London (Emirates recently tried to launch a nonstop route to Dubai but it never materialized). In a nutshell: Phoenix is a big American city, but it is the last thing from an international city.
Urban sprawl and car-centric culture. Very spread-out. Public transportation is woeful. Forget what you may have read about that new light rail system. The metro area is much too big for it to be much use. Most people aren't too fond of standing outside waiting for a trolley in 110-degree heat anyway.
Ubiquitous soliciting and panhandling. Not one week will go by when you won't be walking through a parking lot into/out of a store, completely minding your own business when suddenly you are accosted by some white-trash goon or a group of 16 year-old punks asking you for money. This would happen to me even when I pulled into service stations just to get gas. I've never had this problem in any other region that I've ever lived in. But it would happen to me ALL the time when I lived in Phoenix. It gradually escalated from minor nuisance to major pain in the arse.
Crime/fraud. Arizona is #1 nationwide in identity theft and #1 in adult kidnappings. Both fraud and violent crime are big problems. Arizona is a border state with very strict drug laws. At the same time, it also has very permissive gun laws (e.g. the Castle Doctrine) and an Old West mentality. All of these factors combine.
Household pests, especially scorpions. I was lucky enough never to get stung by a scorpion, and I never even saw one. But it seemed that almost everyone else whom I met there had at least one run-in with these critters.
Illegal immigration. Another big problem in Phoenix. If you are thinking of starting any type of business there, make sure you fully vet your job applicants before hiring them!
High utility bills. You'll have your A/C running constantly for a good three months out of the year. Water bills tend to be very steep as well. You'll go through tanks of gas quickly as well due to the spread-out distances.
Atrocious public school system. Ranked at or near the bottom nationwide.
Extremely conservative (both in politics and religion). If you're Republican, you'll feel right at home there. But if you're a liberal yuppie from San Francisco or Boston or Washington, boy are you in for a real culture shock. Arizona is a solid-red state and it follows that Phoenix is too, since it is the state capital and the seat of government (note though, that Tucson, which is 120 miles to the southeast, is decidedly liberal). On religion: you may also find yourself getting hounded by proselytyzers as the area has a sizable population of Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses.
Worst, most unsafe and aggressive drivers in the country. I've lived all over the country and Phoenix wins all awards in this category. They're absolute maniacs. Try to keep your cool if you're ever confronted with any type of similar situation and don't allow it to escalate. Remember what I wrote above about the gun laws and the Castle doctrine (...you can see where I am going with this).
I lived in Phoenix/Scottsdale happily for 5 years and don't have many large complaints (yes, summers are too hot but nearly everyone concedes that)..
What struck me on the con side was the amount of road rage. I was friendly with a number of NYC transplants and one argument we could count on was which city was worse for aggressive drivers, Phoenix or New York.
The roads in Phoenix are superb, wide and easy to drive on, and I am not a slow driver hogging the right lane, so I never quite understood why there is so much road rage. Still a mystery to me.
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The roads in Phoenix are superb, wide and easy to drive on, and I am not a slow driver hogging the right lane, so I never quite understood why there is so much road rage. Still a mystery to me.
hasn't the new 202 extension helped out yet, or was that just "marketing"?
It definitely helped on the east side (way less truck traffic). West side just has poor infrastructure planning because everything ties to the I10 without much of an alternative for a lot of people.
well, aside from rush hour, I never have much of an issue on I17; although I do notice alot of areas between Thomas and Dunlap are in need of serious repair..
I don't see how population changes the argument. His argument was they were more liberal because they had more minorities. Regardless of their size, both cities are significantly more diverse yet are more conservative. The point I was making is that a larger minority population doesn't by default make a city more liberal or conservative. Atlanta is larger and more diverse than Portland but Portland is much more liberal. There are a lot of factors that impact whether a city is more liberal or conservative.
The reason I find Atlanta and Dallas to be more conservative is due to multiple reasons not just one. Culture and history play a bigger factor than race in my opinion. Both Atlanta and Dallas are in traditional southern states that had significant slave driven economies and were members of the Confederacy. They are also have a larger evangelical presence and more hate groups according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Miami is more liberal and I had forgotten include that. Phoenix is too new of a city that contains mostly transplants from the midwest and west coast so it feels much more liberal to me. The only time I feel Phoenix is moderate is when I read about it the media.
Here's a link to some research that the Pew Research Center did on several major cities in the US. Both Dallas and Atlanta rank as more liberal than Phoenix.
Dallas was only a city for 5 years when the Civil War began. Arizona was also part of the Confederacy for a period of time. It was also one of the few states to reject the creation of MLK Day as a holiday. It voted with the Southern states against the Civil Rights Act of 1965.
All that said, those are state politics and 2020 is a very different time. All of these cities have been heavily influences by transplants from other areas of the country and the world.
I think you're using how the states lean politically to color the cities. Texas and Georgia are undoubtedly more conservative than Arizona, but Phoenix is more conservative than Dallas and Atlanta. Not that that's a bad thing.
Here's a link to some research that the Pew Research Center did on several major cities in the US. Both Dallas and Atlanta rank as more liberal than Phoenix.
Dallas was only a city for 5 years when the Civil War began. Arizona was also part of the Confederacy for a period of time. It was also one of the few states to reject the creation of MLK Day as a holiday. It voted with the Southern states against the Civil Rights Act of 1965.
All that said, those are state politics and 2020 is a very different time. All of these cities have been heavily influences by transplants from other areas of the country and the world.
I think you're using how the states lean politically to color the cities. Texas and Georgia are undoubtedly more conservative than Arizona, but Phoenix is more conservative than Dallas and Atlanta. Not that that's a bad thing.
Correction: the southern part of AZ Territory was Confederate (for what that is worth) We weren't even a State during the Civil War.
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