How true is this evaluation of Phoenix? (Tucson, Mesa: transplants, unemployment)
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I lived in both of those cities and I feel that Phoenix is more conservative than those two due to the fact that both have a much higher minority population and those populations tend to lean left. Phoenix is much less religious but feels more conservative, although it has been trending purple lately.
Well, you could argue Birmingham and Jackson have more African Americans and a larger minority population than Phoenix. It doesn't make those cities less conservative than Phoenix. I don't feel that Dallas has a larger minority population. I would argue it's comparable to Phoenix. Atlanta has a larger African American population but the non-minority or caucasian population tends to be overwhelmingly conservative whereas as our white population tends to be more moderate. Also, Phoenix and Tempe are technically blue as a another poster observed. Really, the only places that feel more liberal than Phoenix in my experience are the cities on the west coast and the northeast. Even the Midwest does not feel significantly more liberal to me.
In Phoenix, from my experience, you can where a MAGA hat or a Clinton or Bernie shirt and no one will really bother you. Most people here are not as fanatic as they are in deep blue or deep red cities.
I actually like living in a place where there is some mixture. As good as it sounds living amongst people who think like me politically, it would be kinda boring not being able to get into a good argument with someone
I would say Phoenicians and Arizonans in general are not overly rude but not overly friendly either.
Well, you could argue Birmingham and Jackson have more African Americans and a larger minority population than Phoenix. It doesn't make those cities less conservative than Phoenix. I don't feel that Dallas has a larger minority population. I would argue it's comparable to Phoenix. Atlanta has a larger African American population but the non-minority or caucasian population tends to be overwhelmingly conservative whereas as our white population tends to be more moderate. Also, Phoenix and Tempe are technically blue as a another poster observed. Really, the only places that feel more liberal than Phoenix in my experience are the cities on the west coast and the northeast. Even the Midwest does not feel significantly more liberal to me.
You could bring up Birmingham and Jackson but it wouldn't be an apt argument since those two cities are much smaller than Phoenix.
Dallas absolutely has a larger minority population. It is 50% white with 30% white non Hispanic. Phoenix is 65% white with 45% white non Hispanic.
I find both cities themselves to be more liberal than Phoenix and I'd add Miami, Houston, Minneapolis, and Chicago. Possibly the major Ohio cities and Detroit as well. Phoenix at best feels very moderate but leans conservative to me.
You could bring up Birmingham and Jackson but it wouldn't be an apt argument since those two cities are much smaller than Phoenix.
Dallas absolutely has a larger minority population. It is 50% white with 30% white non Hispanic. Phoenix is 65% white with 45% white non Hispanic.
I find both cities themselves to be more liberal than Phoenix and I'd add Miami, Houston, Minneapolis, and Chicago. Possibly the major Ohio cities and Detroit as well. Phoenix at best feels very moderate but leans conservative to me.
Are you talking about the whole metropolitan area or the city of Phoenix itself? If the city, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. It feels, and is, pretty blue.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V
Are you talking about the whole metropolitan area or the city of Phoenix itself? If the city, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. It feels, and is, pretty blue.
The only parts of Phoenix proper that I know lean right are Ahwatukee and the north side (above Northern Ave)
Are you talking about the whole metropolitan area or the city of Phoenix itself? If the city, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. It feels, and is, pretty blue.
I should have phrased that better. I meant that it feels more conservative than cities like Dallas and Atlanta. It doesn't necessarily mean that it is conservative, just that on a spectrum Phoenix would be farther to the right than Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago, Denver, etc. Again this is just my opinion from living in all of these places.
Phoenix is so massive, it's hard to say that it's conservative or liberal. Like Firebird said, Northern all the way up to Anthem is fairly conservative. South of that is more liberal. Phoenix proper core is liberal, but you can't really say "Phoenix" is one or the other. It's just too sprawling.
I spent one year living in Phoenix and all in all, I did not like it there. But I'm not out to trash the city, I just want to be accurate and thorough with the good points as well as the not so good points. You should preferably visit any place before you decide to move there and not rely just on information that you've read on the Internet.
So here it is...
PROS
Pleasant climate from around October through around May. The summer heat is manageable as long as you drink plenty of water and don't walk around outside barefoot, lol. Seriously though, three or four
uncomfortable months are an easy trade-off for the other seven or eight months of glorious weather.
Beautiful desert environs. Gorgeous sunsets, desert flora & fauna (the high desert country as you head north of Phoenix is especially picturesque as you head towards Sedona or Flagstaff).
Dry air means no mold, mildew or car rust. Even better, very few mosquitoes or gnats.
Excellent infrastructure. A modern city, well-planned, well laid-out and easy to navigate. An extensive freeway system without any toll roads. For a city of its population size, Phoenix is surprisingly uncongested. Your commutes may be lengthy in terms of mileage but traffic usually flows pretty well. Even if you encounter a traffic jam, you can usually find an alternate route to get you to where you're going.
The roads are always easy to drive with no ice or snow or potholes to worry about, and the entire area (though surrounded by mountains) is very flat.
Very affordable housing and rents. One of the cheapest major metropolitan areas you will find anywhere in the U.S.
Well-connected to the rest of the country. A very good international airport (Sky Harbor) that is well-served by many airlines and domestic routes. The added presence of a feeder airport (Mesa-Gateway) means that airfares to/from Phoenix tend to be real bargains. Of course if you prefer not to fly, Phoenix is also within driving distance to many major metropolitan areas such as Las Vegas (5.5 hours), San Diego (7 hours) or Los Angeles (8 hours).
For sports fans, Phoenix is represented by sports teams in all four professional leagues (MLB, NBA, NHL and NFL)
Relatively clean. Although smog can be a minor problem at certain times of the year, I never found there to be much trash or litter around the city. Then again, this is probably because there aren't too many pedestrians around! (see Cons).
CONS
The people: rude, flaky, obnoxious, aggressive, uneducated, unsophisticated, meth-addicted, rednecky, racist and xenophobic. I need to stress that this is strictly my own opinion, but I found the locals to be at least one (or a combination of some or all) of the above.
Characterless. A giant sea of strip malls, chain restaurants, Orwellian neighborhoods and tract housing, all surrounding an empty shell of a downtown. Very commercialized and generic. Has the look and feel of a giant suburb, or a cluster of smaller suburbs. Lacks a certain cosmopolitan vibe.
Awkward, insular lifestyle. You often feel like you're living in a bubble, due partly to the intense climate and partly to the urban sprawl that makes you so dependent on your vehicle. You'll leave your air-conditioned house and step into your air-conditioned car, from there you'll scurry into your air-conditioned office or the air-conditioned supermarket or mall and then back in reverse order. If you have a pet, may as well potty train them. You can't let a dog or cat outside during the daytime for most of the year - they can suffer third-degree burns.
The area is very spread-out and little to nothing is within walking distance of your house or office. You'll find that you'll never really see or interact with your neighbors except to wave at them as your automatic garage door is closing. I always found it ironic how people ostensibly move to Phoenix for the weather, and yet once they arrive there, they really spend relatively little time outdoors.
Disgusting tap water. You might hear a local bragging to you that "Atlanta has a 30-day water supply, while ours is 30 years". Be that as it may, the quality of the H2O sucks. It's hard water, and whenever you wash your pots and pans you'll often find this weird residue that never seems to go away.
Subpar job market. Phoenix's economy was hit hard by the subprime mortgage crisis, indicating that the economy is not diversified enough. Arizona tends to rank high nationwide in unemployment, and it is also a right-to-work state with relatively low wages. Keep in mind that worker productivity is always going to be negatively impacted in such a hot climate.
Boring, lifeless downtown. With the exception of the NBA/NHL arena and MLB baseball stadium, downtown
Phoenix is strictly a business district with little or nothing in the way of entertainment or nightlife. To get your groove on, you actually have to head OUT of the city to the suburbs such as Glendale or Scottsdale. I found Phoenix to be a very odd city in this particular respect.
Very little cultural diversity. For a city with such a large population, Phoenix is sorely lacking in this category. The local idea of "diversity" is the city's many Mexican chain restaurants and a few tiny shops selling Native American jewelry. It's difficult to find any type of international cuisine there (other than Mexican, and even that isn't as good as the locals will try to claim). Sky Harbor Airport has no direct international flights anywhere outside of North America, except for a sporadic flight to London (Emirates recently tried to launch a nonstop route to Dubai but it never materialized). In a nutshell: Phoenix is a big American city, but it is the last thing from an international city.
Urban sprawl and car-centric culture. Very spread-out. Public transportation is woeful. Forget what you may have read about that new light rail system. The metro area is much too big for it to be much use. Most people aren't too fond of standing outside waiting for a trolley in 110-degree heat anyway.
Ubiquitous soliciting and panhandling. Not one week will go by when you won't be walking through a parking lot into/out of a store, completely minding your own business when suddenly you are accosted by some white-trash goon or a group of 16 year-old punks asking you for money. This would happen to me even when I pulled into service stations just to get gas. I've never had this problem in any other region that I've ever lived in. But it would happen to me ALL the time when I lived in Phoenix. It gradually escalated from minor nuisance to major pain in the arse.
Crime/fraud. Arizona is #1 nationwide in identity theft and #1 in adult kidnappings. Both fraud and violent crime are big problems. Arizona is a border state with very strict drug laws. At the same time, it also has very permissive gun laws (e.g. the Castle Doctrine) and an Old West mentality. All of these factors combine.
Household pests, especially scorpions. I was lucky enough never to get stung by a scorpion, and I never even saw one. But it seemed that almost everyone else whom I met there had at least one run-in with these critters.
Illegal immigration. Another big problem in Phoenix. If you are thinking of starting any type of business there, make sure you fully vet your job applicants before hiring them!
High utility bills. You'll have your A/C running constantly for a good three months out of the year. Water bills tend to be very steep as well. You'll go through tanks of gas quickly as well due to the spread-out distances.
Atrocious public school system. Ranked at or near the bottom nationwide.
Extremely conservative (both in politics and religion). If you're Republican, you'll feel right at home there. But if you're a liberal yuppie from San Francisco or Boston or Washington, boy are you in for a real culture shock. Arizona is a solid-red state and it follows that Phoenix is too, since it is the state capital and the seat of government (note though, that Tucson, which is 120 miles to the southeast, is decidedly liberal). On religion: you may also find yourself getting hounded by proselytyzers as the area has a sizable population of Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses.
Worst, most unsafe and aggressive drivers in the country. I've lived all over the country and Phoenix wins all awards in this category. They're absolute maniacs. Try to keep your cool if you're ever confronted with any type of similar situation and don't allow it to escalate. Remember what I wrote above about the gun laws and the Castle doctrine (...you can see where I am going with this).
That was actually a pretty solid evaluation of Phoenix, even if there are a few points that I disagree with and feel the need to elaborate upon. I've never really read a good long opinion of Phoenix that wasn't overly biased one way or the other, but this was close to capturing my likes and dislikes of the city.
The first thing I want to elaborate upon, based on my experience, is that the you can't really generalize the entire Phoenix population, so I disagree with your friends opinion about the people here. I have met all kinds of people here. There is racism, but I have never heard of it being to the extent that you find in other conservative red states, mainly the south. There seems to be general minding your own business attitude here, so even if one were racist, they would probably not be encouraged in this environment like you would see in the south (and even rural Arizona). People here are generally right leaning and some are extremely conservative, but there seems to be more of libertarian bent to it all, anti-immigration (mainly Latino) beliefs, and some religious based conservatism.
I think your friends are overexaggerating the problems of panhandling, soliciting, crime (fraud and identity theft), and pests. If you hire an exterminator, then you won't have a house or apartment crawling with scorpions. They are a nuisance, but manageable. Not to bring up the south again, but in humid places like that you deal with a lot worse. Outside of summer, I often forget scorpions are even a thing because they are not common at my place in the cooler months. In the summer I make sure to have the house inspected and sprayed. It's a small task. If that's too much for people, then fine, but I guarantee you will deal with pests in most other places. It feels like a complaint because the people are trying to find additional reasons to not like their time here. Panhandling and soliciting happens in any big city. It's probably worse in more urban cities that have a higher homeless population, so I don't see how that's something unique to Phoenix. In most decent areas, you won't find many homeless people or solicitors, and again it's not even on the same level as walking through downtown LA.
The comment about illegal immigration is laughable. As if hiring people is the issue with illegal immigration. There is a problem with illegal immigration and it is bigger than that specific aspect of it, which frankly I don't see as an issue if you are running a legit business.
High utility bills? What about heaters in cold climates? Why does the utility cost not matter in those cases? Again, increases in utility bills during a season (I know it's a bit different with Phoenix because summer here is like 2 and a half seasons long), is not unique to Phoenix.
I think the driver aggressiveness of also overexaggerated. I'm guessing you would find bad or aggressive drivers in a lot of car-centric places. It comes with the nature of being in a place where you will drive more often, which means a greater likelihood of running into rude drivers. Also, because everyone is forced to drive so often and so much, it becomes a problem psychologically.
I agree with pretty much everything else. It is really sad what happened to downtown Phoenix because in its heyday it would make current civic leaders jealous. It didn't develop enough before the mass exodus to suburbs occurred throughout the country in the 60s and 70s. While other cities have a well developed central district, Phoenix's was cut short in its growth phase. Then you had the ludicrous city leaders and developers deciding to demolish historic structures to end up building nothing of importance in its place, like a parking lot that probably wasn't really needed.
I agree it's not diverse even though there is a sizeable Hispanic population. The communities are often segregated here in Phoenix, not entirely due to race (it is definitely a factor, especially historically, but in modern day Phoenix it's heavily influenced by economic divide). Because of the lack of culture you don't see much development like a Chinatown that you'd see in large cities with a sizeable minority population.
Phoenix's economy is definitely not diverse enough, despite what most people here will say. They are so sucked into the boosterism that promotes the real estate business here, that they look at cheap growth as a positive. Phoenix lacks a strong diverse economy that you see other large cities have. In many cases the industries and jobs bring people to a city and then you have the demand for real estate. In Phoenix, the real estate brings the people, but not often the type of jobs that put the city on the map economically. When most people are sucked into the real estate frenzy, they ignore the warning signs of high population growth and a city too dependent on construction and real estate to drive its economy. The back offices and non-skilled jobs are not transforming Phoenix into a place that can sustain healthy growth. In most large cities, an economy that provides jobs for skilled and educated workers and desirable city characteristics spur population growth, which in turn leads to real estate demand. Here, the real estate demand is generated to bring people here, usually to get out of places they can't afford, so you are left as a city that relies in a cheap real estate industry to drive itself. Well, that doesn't seem like something that can survive tough times or through the long term future. It also doesn't help that the suburbs essentially compete with Phoenix when it comes to bringing jobs into the state, so you're left with a central city that lacks high end jobs to bring in a population that can transform the city.
In Phoenix, from my experience, you can where a MAGA hat or a Clinton or Bernie shirt and no one will really bother you. Most people here are not as fanatic as they are in deep blue or deep red cities.
I actually like living in a place where there is some mixture. As good as it sounds living amongst people who think like me politically, it would be kinda boring not being able to get into a good argument with someone
I would say Phoenicians and Arizonans in general are not overly rude but not overly friendly either.
That's been my experience as well and something I really like about Phoenix and Arizona overall. As an independent myself I've found a lot of people I engage with will not hesitate to vote for both parties during an election based on who they believe is best suited for the job. The registered voter numbers for the state show how evenly divided the state is politically.
Party Name Registered Voters Percent Republican 1,363,935 34.74% Other 1,301,292 33.14% Democratic 1,228,745 31.29% Libertarian 32,677 0.83%
Arizona was one of the first states to legalize medical marijuana, even before other states legalized it recreationally. The state will vote for recreational marijuana in November and is projected to pass.
I think it will depend on voter turnout. If the younger voters don't turn out in large numbers, the scared old white farts will shoot it down AGAIN.
And lest anyone get their panties in a wad, I'm 'dissing my own generation since I'm an old white fart but I'm not a scared one.
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