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I'm curious what kind of person you believe your "spin" actually impacts? Your insults get boring and you lose cred when casting aspersions. I have never stated that I'm against masks; I've merely pointed out how silly it is to believe that one is somehow exempt from germs and "protected" being un-masked while sitting at a table in a restaurant. I'm all for masks as long as they're worn in such a way that it's actually productive.
"100% consistency"... again your disingenuous exaggerating. I never stated "100%".
Oh... and your intentional insult about one's faith? Don't for a moment believe you don't exercise extreme faith every day. Every time you sit in a chair you have faith that it's not going to collapse under your weight.
Point taken ^^. You are correct. I need to dial it back.
At the end of the day, I just don't get why people don't realize how easy it is to get close enough (yet not perfect) to drop the infection rate below 1.0. We spent trillions. In hindsight and based on updated research, I think all we needed were people wearing a lot of masks like Asia is doing.
And based on your comments, I assumed you were writing off wearing masks unless you were forced to. Like a "nod and a wink" as you drag in your tattered mask in etc. Barring the law and your potential work policy, are you wearing a mask out inside public buildings?
I often bring up religion because there is an element of irony identical to your abortion comment but in reverse. In fact, there are posters that don't care to wear a mask because of their religion. I can think of one person that discussed how they will be in a better place if they die and is the reason he doesn't worry at all. That reasoning doesn't make a bit of sense to me. Sorry, but I think it is relevant when a person's point of reference in life is centered in faith and allows them to be (IMO) irrational. After all, there is a correlation between people who think masks are a joke and their religion / political views. So like so many topics, religion ties into it.
What's the big deal about wearing a mask in the supermarket? And maybe wait for me to grab my jar of Prego and move on instead of shouldering in front of me to get your Ragu 10 seconds quicker (which is rude under any circumstances and illustrates a fundamental reason why we're even having this debate - so many people today are "selfish, self-centered, and self-absorbed").
Regarding mask wearing: I'm currently a little more than a stone's throw away from the Canadian border, and hardly anybody up here is wearing masks. Why is this? Obvious answer is: COVID 19 is virtually non existent around these parts. It's absolutely beautiful here with afternoon temps mostly in the 70s, and seemingly endless greenery. No blazing sun, no fires, and no worries about getting sick from heat stroke or this stupid virus. Quite the extreme opposite of Phoenix.
I do agree with your point. I'm wearing a mask when I go insides stores, and I'm literally the only one doing so up here from my observations. Wearing them is somewhat uncomfortable, and I still question their overall effectiveness, but I would much rather see people wearing masks than having the entire economy shut down. I'm strongly opposed to these intrusive government mandates, but simply wearing a mask seems like a more reasonable approach than ordering businesses to close or restrict services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elna Rae
I'm curious what kind of person you believe your "spin" actually impacts? Your insults get boring and you lose cred when casting aspersions. I have never stated that I'm against masks; I've merely pointed out how silly it is to believe that one is somehow exempt from germs and "protected" being un-masked while sitting at a table in a restaurant. I'm all for masks as long as they're worn in such a way that it's actually productive.
"100% consistency"... again your disingenuous exaggerating. I never stated "100%".
Oh... and your intentional insult about one's faith? Don't for a moment believe you don't exercise extreme faith every day. Every time you sit in a chair you have faith that it's not going to collapse under your weight.
[mod cut - personal attack]
Last edited by VTsnowbird; 06-22-2020 at 04:39 AM..
Curious - are you willing to wear a mask during flu season? (vaccine had like a 10% effectiveness rate a couple of years ago) I mean if one is REALLY caring for one's neighbor, I would think that wearing a mask during flu season would also be the caring thing to do. Flu causes death (much more so with kids than Covid-19) and even in rare cases causes paralysis in children.
No. People should get the flu shot. I have gotten it for years. Forgetting that, realize, nearly all of us have antibodies relating to the flu. As in, some people can make up to a trillion different possible antibodies and are therefore infinitely more guarded than this one.
As I have said in the past, I literally have hundreds of doctor customers. On any given day, I might chat with an ER doc, internal medicine doc, pulmonologist etc. Since the "C" work comes up all too often. I've asked a question to young and old docs who are closer to the frontlines. The question I ask is "do you visit restaurants, go shopping, etc". The overwhelming majority say they don't. Some sight the lack of masks. Most discuss the crazy examples of healthy people dying. And they just don't want it or give it to their loved ones or their patients.
Last week an internal medicine doc from IL told me that he has been at this for years and has never watched a person go from pretty healthy to near death in his 20 years of working as a doc. I think you are asking if I am a purist. No. A "purist" won't speed or put chemicals on their lawn because that is putting another person at risk. So no, I'm not a purist. Comparing the flu (plenty of close enough antibodies) plus the flu shot just isn't the same comparison. In around 6 months and MAYBE 2% infection rate, we have around 110,000 deaths. If left unchecked, I could easily see 10X more deaths or 1M. I know... You subscribe to people being plugged into that category to get more money. Realize the opposite theory is being floated. I just finished a podcast on route to MN on that very topic. So I am gathering the current number in the USA is close. Surely not in MX.
This is typical of Minnesota Fats. His arrogance has been existent on here for quite a while, and it has gotten to the point where I'm pretty much ignoring him. He belittles Arizona for the live & let live attitude. What's really disgusting about this is he's not even a permanent resident, but he's on here frequently with his "I'm better than 99% of the population" type of attitude. Best to just consider the source.
Actually, I'm at 189 pounds this morning (I'm 6'2"). So formally MN Fats (by 35 pounds). It's "disgusting" because I live in two spots? FYI. There is an "ignore" function. But it's what keeps you coming back. Right? If we all agreed, that would be kind of boring.
As far as better than 99% comment. I got the same impression with your posts. Those "snot-nosed kids" and "NIYBY" rants are viewed as belittling people. I guess that got under your skin. That wasn't my goal.
I bet if we actually met, I am sure we would be much nicer to one another. I wouldn't doubt if we agree more than we disagree. So typed words can come off a little too strong. Guilty as charged. And even though I'm a smaller man now because of weight loss, I'm still big enough to apologize if I came off too strong. So lets each reflect some and tone it down. Sound good?
As a fellow Minnesotan (we stereotypically don’t do conflict well) I would just like to say I hope you all had a good Father’s Day or otherwise good Sunday!
Point taken ^^. You are correct. I need to dial it back.
At the end of the day, I just don't get why people don't realize how easy it is to get close enough (yet not perfect) to drop the infection rate below 1.0. We spent trillions. In hindsight and based on updated research, I think all we needed were people wearing a lot of masks like Asia is doing.
And based on your comments, I assumed you were writing off wearing masks unless you were forced to. Like a "nod and a wink" as you drag in your tattered mask in etc. Barring the law and your potential work policy, are you wearing a mask out inside public buildings?
I often bring up religion because there is an element of irony identical to your abortion comment but in reverse. In fact, there are posters that don't care to wear a mask because of their religion. I can think of one person that discussed how they will be in a better place if they die and is the reason he doesn't worry at all. That reasoning doesn't make a bit of sense to me. Sorry, but I think it is relevant when a person's point of reference in life is centered in faith and allows them to be (IMO) irrational. After all, there is a correlation between people who think masks are a joke and their religion / political views. So like so many topics, religion ties into it.
Thank you.
So far, NO ONE has offered truly convincing evidence that sitting at a restaurant table without a mask is somehow "safe" for all the surrounding people, including the servers. I find this attitude ludicrous and I'll continue to mock it until I hear some sound reasoning. If it's NOT SAFE then all of the mask police should have the courage to condemn this practice... but it better be based on proven science.
I'm always amazed at how unbelievers size up Christianity by the actions of Christians. We're flawed vessels just like everyone else. Use Scripture and the life of Christ to make your evaluations. That one Christian you mentioned who said he would be better off dying? He is correct. And also selfish. Paul said "to die is gain but for your sake it is better that I stick around." We should love our neighbor and if it takes masks to do this then so be it.
So far, NO ONE has offered truly convincing evidence that sitting at a restaurant table without a mask is somehow "safe" for all the surrounding people, including the servers. I find this attitude ludicrous and I'll continue to mock it until I hear some sound reasoning. If it's NOT SAFE then all of the mask police should have the courage to condemn this practice... but it better be based on proven science.
I'm always amazed at how unbelievers size up Christianity by the actions of Christians. We're flawed vessels just like everyone else. Use Scripture and the life of Christ to make your evaluations. That one Christian you mentioned who said he would be better off dying? He is correct. And also selfish. Paul said "to die is gain but for your sake it is better that I stick around." We should love our neighbor and if it takes masks to do this then so be it.
Fair enough and thanks for your thoughts. Flawed vessels... I love the term. I am sure we can agree that religion seeps into politics, and for whatever reason, wearing masks which obviously knocks down large virus vessels know as spit particles. I'm happy to hear that you are on board with wearing masks to "love our neighbor"! Personally, I come from the school of thought that we don't have to toe-the-line 100%. Rather, knock down the infection rate below a statistically significant amount of transmission while not tanking the economy. Then, let business and entertainment survive while being smart. Still, having the servers wear masks makes sense to me. So my frustration and overly strong words has everything to do with people not grasping common sense and acting accordingly.
Based on past posts (and probably in the spirit of keeping your posts a heck of a lot shorter than mine), you leave out some key details that are running through your brain. The nose-picking employee exchange comes to mind as it took me post #10 to connect the dots. So people put you in a bucket when your point was only to expose the flawed logic. I'm slowly learning. Certainly eating with masks on qualify as questionable science. Personally, I would be strategic as to what table I pick and even the location at the table. My brain focuses on rick aversion and not being risk-free.
FYI, MN-Born-n-Raised, I have been following this thread partially because you have been posting in it. Thanks for a contribution that makes it interesting and educational..
Fair enough and thanks for your thoughts. Flawed vessels... I love the term. I am sure we can agree that religion seeps into politics, and for whatever reason, wearing masks which obviously knocks down large virus vessels know as spit particles. I'm happy to hear that you are on board with wearing masks to "love our neighbor"! Personally, I come from the school of thought that we don't have to toe-the-line 100%. Rather, knock down the infection rate below a statistically significant amount of transmission while not tanking the economy. Then, let business and entertainment survive while being smart. Still, having the servers wear masks makes sense to me. So my frustration and overly strong words has everything to do with people not grasping common sense and acting accordingly.
Based on past posts (and probably in the spirit of keeping your posts a heck of a lot shorter than mine), you leave out some key details that are running through your brain. The nose-picking employee exchange comes to mind as it took me post #10 to connect the dots. So people put you in a bucket when your point was only to expose the flawed logic. I'm slowly learning. Certainly eating with masks on qualify as questionable science. Personally, I would be strategic as to what table I pick and even the location at the table. My brain focuses on rick aversion and not being risk-free.
In this current culture where we have no more than 60 seconds to make a point before readers check out, brevity is crucial.
Since you seem to be obsessed with my nose-picking employee example I'll use it: I made it very clear that I care deeply about my employees. Caring for someone does not preclude criticizing them. (It turns out I was right; young people generally speaking haven't taken this pandemic as seriously as they should... of course a lot of old farts haven't either!)
There are some in this anonymous "community" (With no personal accountability it's not community at all.) that have a pattern of casting malicious insults toward other posters (an important distinction v. those "outside") whose views they disagree with. I believe all others are entitled to a measure of charity rather than hyperspace-jumping-to-conclusions regarding evil motives.
It's obvious: When someone feels threatened they attempt to deflect or reload by insulting their opponent rather than sticking to the topic. In the long run this tactic is self-defeating as it just makes them look like an ass. Personal attacks are the fruit of hate and the antithesis of love.
No. People should get the flu shot. I have gotten it for years. Forgetting that, realize, nearly all of us have antibodies relating to the flu. As in, some people can make up to a trillion different possible antibodies and are therefore infinitely more guarded than this one.
As I have said in the past, I literally have hundreds of doctor customers. On any given day, I might chat with an ER doc, internal medicine doc, pulmonologist etc. Since the "C" work comes up all too often. I've asked a question to young and old docs who are closer to the frontlines. The question I ask is "do you visit restaurants, go shopping, etc". The overwhelming majority say they don't. Some sight the lack of masks. Most discuss the crazy examples of healthy people dying. And they just don't want it or give it to their loved ones or their patients.
Last week an internal medicine doc from IL told me that he has been at this for years and has never watched a person go from pretty healthy to near death in his 20 years of working as a doc. I think you are asking if I am a purist. No. A "purist" won't speed or put chemicals on their lawn because that is putting another person at risk. So no, I'm not a purist. Comparing the flu (plenty of close enough antibodies) plus the flu shot just isn't the same comparison. In around 6 months and MAYBE 2% infection rate, we have around 110,000 deaths. If left unchecked, I could easily see 10X more deaths or 1M. I know... You subscribe to people being plugged into that category to get more money. Realize the opposite theory is being floated. I just finished a podcast on route to MN on that very topic. So I am gathering the current number in the USA is close. Surely not in MX.
Sorry, but we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. H1N1 alone has infected over 100 million Americans, killing over 75,000 people and sending almost 1 million people to the hospital. I don't think those antibodies are that great; furthermore even though our family gets the flu shot every year (and we are pro-vaccine), my kids still got the flu. I just think its interesting that the same people who want the government to mandate masks for Covid, would have a fit if the government mandated masks for flu season. Yeah, sorry, I find that a tad hypocritical but whatever.....
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Those "snot-nosed kids" and "NIYBY" rants are viewed as belittling people. I guess that got under your skin. That wasn't my goal.
I wouldn't doubt if we agree more than we disagree. So typed words can come off a little too strong. Guilty as charged. And even though I'm a smaller man now because of weight loss, I'm still big enough to apologize if I came off too strong. So lets each reflect some and tone it down. Sound good? 
Personally, I come from the school of thought that we don't have to toe-the-line 100%. Rather, knock down the infection rate below a statistically significant amount of transmission while not tanking the economy. Then, let business and entertainment survive while being smart. Still, having the servers wear masks makes sense to me. So my frustration and overly strong words has everything to do with people not grasping common sense and acting accordingly. 
I'll use it: I made it very clear that I care deeply about my employees. Caring for someone does not preclude criticizing them. (It turns out I was right; young people generally speaking haven't taken this pandemic as seriously as they should... of course a lot of old farts haven't either!) 
