Covid virus in phoenix (temps, culture, weight loss)
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Covid can 'be a beast' with anyone of any age. Don't rely on your age to save you. It's true that people over 65 die moe often from Covid-19, in Arizona that amounts to 903 people but younger people have also died
Deaths by age group:
<20 years of age: 4
20 - 44 years of age: 58
45 - 54 years of age: 73
55- 64 years of age: 156
So far, there are 1338 deaths out of 49798 confirmed cases. That's only a 2.6% death rate when accounting for known cases.
This doesn't count asymptomatic cases and people with mild symptoms that were never tested. This would likely push the true death rate much lower.
1338 deaths and more every day. So what's the number where the not-at-risk populace should be required to become responsible citizens? 2000? 5000? 10,000? Or are your "freedoms" more sacred to you than any number of human lives?
Only a 2.6% death rate... and likely much lower. So that's fine then, as long as it's a small percentage it doesn't sound so bad. Even at a 1% rate there's the potential to lose 70,000+ people in AZ. Are you OK with that?
And those very, very few that die had it coming because they lived an unhealthy lifestyle or got older. I guess victim shaming absolves people from responsibility or guilt in all situations now.
What about those who are at risk for reasons other than "behavior-based" conditions or the sin of living past 60? What about those who are at risk, but can't stay in total seclusion? I guess they are just the unfortunate ones to draw the short straw and end up as innocent sacrifices on the altar of your personal comfort.
What's the big deal about wearing a mask in the supermarket? And maybe wait for me to grab my jar of Prego and move on instead of shouldering in front of me to get your Ragu 10 seconds quicker (which is rude under any circumstances and illustrates a fundamental reason why we're even having this debate - so many people today are "selfish, self-centered, and self-absorbed").
What's the big deal about wearing a mask in the supermarket? And maybe wait for me to grab my jar of Prego and move on instead of shouldering in front of me to get your Ragu 10 seconds quicker (which is rude under any circumstances and illustrates a fundamental reason why we're even having this debate - so many people today are "selfish, self-centered, and self-absorbed").
Culturally speaking, we in the USA have become less considerate for quite some time. Being selfish is in our DNA and takes higher brainpower to overcome the desire to be selfish. A person's "default" can be observed in countries where there is allocation. Like when I was on a plane last year coming back from Cuba to FL. The SWA flight didn't bother speaking English as we might have been the only non-Spanish speaking people on the plane. When the plane stopped and people heard a "ding" signaling it was o.k. to unbuckle, the whole damn plane literally jumped out of their seat and shot up as many rows as possible. I'm talking 100% and it was a sight to see!
Relating to this thread, people need to realize others around you are judging you when you default to your neanderthal POV and you rationalize accordingly. To date, I have not said anything. But now that it's the law, I probably will politely remind people that wearing a mask is helpful and is the law. Because your parents didn't do a good job of teaching you, I guess it's time for someone else to educate you on basic decency. It should become apparent by reading people's opinions (hidden behind a keyboard) that a lot of people are judging others. To date, they simply have not said a word. So if you are wondering, yes, they do think you are a jerk for not having higher reasoning skills and common sense. Just as you thought someone was a loser for taking a dump and walking out of a public bathroom without washing their hands. Or maybe for the non-mask wearing folks, that's how you roll (not bothering to wash your hands after going to the bathroom or picking your nose in public).
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 06-21-2020 at 06:30 AM..
I'll break it down for you. 100% consistency will never happen on any topic. You can hone in on one topic and work on the next related one. OR, rationalize your point by finding what you find to be ridiculous. You're a smart guy. Think a little longer.
Regardless of how anyone feels about mask mandates, abortion laws, or any other controversial topic, this is such an essential point. It's hard to have meaningful, productive discussions about issues when we're drowning in whataboutism and widespread misuse of the word "hypocrisy." To make things clear for those who abuse the word, hypocrisy involves a direct contradiction between behavior that one prescribes for others and behavior that one exhibits. If someone says "Always wear a mask" and is then seen consistently unmasked, that person is a hypocrite. True instances of that type of direct contradiction are pretty rare, though.
Usually, what is wrongly described as "hypocrisy" is at most just inconsistency, and some inconsistency is not a bad thing. It indicates a mind that can look at issues on a case-by-case basis, weighing benefits and harms to reach different conclusions. I'm less bothered by that than I am by people who are rigid in their ideology and unwilling to consider new evidence and change their minds. It should also be pointed out that whenever someone points out a double standard, there are always at least two ways to resolve that double standard, and the one chosen may not be the one desired by the person pointing out the double standard.
Regardless of how anyone feels about mask mandates, abortion laws, or any other controversial topic, this is such an essential point. It's hard to have meaningful, productive discussions about issues when we're drowning in whataboutism and widespread misuse of the word "hypocrisy." To make thing clear for those who abuse the word, hypocrisy involves a direct contradiction between behavior that one prescribes for others and behavior that one exhibits. If someone says "Always wear a mask" and is then seen consistently unmasked, that person is a hypocrite. True instances of that type of direct contradiction are pretty rare, though.
Usually, what is wrongly described as "hypocrisy" is at most just inconsistency, and some inconsistency is not a bad thing. It indicates a mind that can look at issues on a case-by-case basis, weighing benefits and harms to reach different conclusions. I'm less bothered by that than I am by people who are rigid in their ideology and unwilling to consider new evidence and change their minds. It should also be pointed out that whenever someone points out a double standard, there are always at least two ways to resolve that double standard, and the one chosen may not be the one desired by the person pointing out the double standard.
Thanks for clarifying. I get why people want a purist POV. I also understand that it's fair and beneficial to point out hypocrisies. I posted because I got the feeling that people need to rationalize why they abandon logic by pointing out others' potential inconsistencies. All my point was there is always a gradient. I thought Christians understood "everyone is a sinner". Using that logic, no one is going to be pure and perfect. And 100% of us have a level of hypocrisy. The only question is how much/obvious.
GREAT point! Since I gather you are in the non-mask wearing camp, thanks for pointing out your inconsistencies. You can rest easy knowing that you are on a higher plane than others.
I'm not a nickel's worth religious and I realize some people are more easily sold (and have to rely on "faith"). So I am going to cut you some slack. In case you were wondering, there is absolutely no way I'd want anything to do with an abortion. A more beneficial approach is to take each topic on its own merit. Relating to masks. Don't justify your selfishness because protestors were too stupid to wear theirs. You might have already tried that argument earlier (some have). Or pointing out the obvious fact that eating out and wearing a mask is rather silly. What does that have to do with other easier areas where it can have a large impact on pushing down infections? At the end of the day, it's about trying to bring the overall infection rate down and manageable. So if we all wore a mask 90% of the time while in stores and never at a restaurant, I bet the infection numbers would have dropped to the point of being irrelevant until we get a vaccine. Simple!
I'll break it down for you. 100% consistency will never happen on any topic. You can hone in on one topic and work on the next related one. OR, rationalize your point by finding what you find to be ridiculous. You're a smart guy. Think a little longer.
I'm curious what kind of person you believe your "spin" actually impacts? Your insults get boring and you lose cred when casting aspersions. I have never stated that I'm against masks; I've merely pointed out how silly it is to believe that one is somehow exempt from germs and "protected" being un-masked while sitting at a table in a restaurant. I'm all for masks as long as they're worn in such a way that it's actually productive.
"100% consistency"... again your disingenuous exaggerating. I never stated "100%".
Oh... and your intentional insult about one's faith? Don't for a moment believe you don't exercise extreme faith every day. Every time you sit in a chair you have faith that it's not going to collapse under your weight.
GREAT point! Since I gather you are in the non-mask wearing camp, thanks for pointing out your inconsistencies. You can rest easy knowing that you are on a higher plane than others.
I'm not a nickel's worth religious and I realize some people are more easily sold (and have to rely on "faith"). So I am going to cut you some slack. In case you were wondering, there is absolutely no way I'd want anything to do with an abortion. A more beneficial approach is to take each topic on its own merit. Relating to masks. Don't justify your selfishness because protestors were too stupid to wear theirs. You might have already tried that argument earlier (some have). Or pointing out the obvious fact that eating out and wearing a mask is rather silly. What does that have to do with other easier areas where it can have a large impact on pushing down infections? At the end of the day, it's about trying to bring the overall infection rate down and manageable. So if we all wore a mask 90% of the time while in stores and never at a restaurant, I bet the infection numbers would have dropped to the point of being irrelevant until we get a vaccine. Simple!
I'll break it down for you. 100% consistency will never happen on any topic. You can hone in on one topic and work on the next related one. OR, rationalize your point by finding what you find to be ridiculous. You're a smart guy. Think a little longer.
Curious - are you willing to wear a mask during flu season? (vaccine had like a 10% effectiveness rate a couple of years ago) I mean if one is REALLY caring for one's neighbor, I would think that wearing a mask during flu season would also be the caring thing to do. Flu causes death (much more so with kids than Covid-19) and even in rare cases causes paralysis in children.
And it would be just dandy if you or your family dies or suffers serious permanent life long damage from this disease?
Is it too much to ask people to wear a damn mask??
Used to a polite society where we do things for our neighbors, our local community, without having to be asked.
Now we have become as selfish, self-centered, and self-absorbed society, where how dare you inconvenience me for doing even a tiny little thing to help myself, my family, or god forbid, my neighbors!
How have we devolved as a society, where people can't even be bothered to even take the most minor precautions for something that could devastate families and neighbors.
So sad to see this type of attitude.
I wear a mask not just for myself, but for my family, and my local community. I'm not a selfish prick who thinks everyone is out to get me and make me subservient. I actually have a brain with reason, common sense, and logic.
What I'm doing, I'm doing for community. I keep up the AZ Covid tracker daily so people can track it. I try to spread the word about doing simple things so we can help ourselves. It's shocking to see people intentionally go against sensible advise and turn it into something negative.
America used to be great. We used to be united against a common enemy. Now we have a common enemy, and people seem to not care any less and just focus on "me me me". This is how great nations fall.
You are right, America used to be great. It used to be great when we didn't have so much government interference, when we didn't have so many keyboard warriors, when people cared about life (including the unborn) and when people took more personal respsonsibility for their actions.
I didn't say "Don't wear a mask." I am all for personal responsbility. What I don't like is cherry picking stats to make a point. Guarantee that you don't wear a mask during flu season (which kills BTW) and which can be pre-symptomatic. So please get off that high horse. You have probably infected and killed someone with the flu and didn't even know it.
And it would be just dandy if you or your family dies or suffers serious permanent life long damage from this disease?
Is it too much to ask people to wear a damn mask??
Used to a polite society where we do things for our neighbors, our local community, without having to be asked.
Now we have become as selfish, self-centered, and self-absorbed society, where how dare you inconvenience me for doing even a tiny little thing to help myself, my family, or god forbid, my neighbors!
How have we devolved as a society, where people can't even be bothered to even take the most minor precautions for something that could devastate families and neighbors.
So sad to see this type of attitude.
I wear a mask not just for myself, but for my family, and my local community. I'm not a selfish prick who thinks everyone is out to get me and make me subservient. I actually have a brain with reason, common sense, and logic.
What I'm doing, I'm doing for community. I keep up the AZ Covid tracker daily so people can track it. I try to spread the word about doing simple things so we can help ourselves. It's shocking to see people intentionally go against sensible advise and turn it into something negative.
America used to be great. We used to be united against a common enemy. Now we have a common enemy, and people seem to not care any less and just focus on "me me me". This is how great nations fall.
Not to completely disagree with your polite society analysis, but you leave out the very important fact that a considerable number of people in this country (40, 50, 60% ??) absolutely hate each other.
Also, not to be too argumentative on a Sunday morning, but the article you linked to is probably not the best choice for defending science against fear tactics.
You are right, America used to be great. It used to be great when we didn't have so much government interference, when we didn't have so many keyboard warriors, when people cared about life (including the unborn) and when people took more personal respsonsibility for their actions.
I didn't say "Don't wear a mask." I am all for personal responsbility. What I don't like is cherry picking stats to make a point. Guarantee that you don't wear a mask during flu season (which kills BTW) and which can be pre-symptomatic. So please get off that high horse. You have probably infected and killed someone with the flu and didn't even know it.
This question shows how much more education we need on this subject because people are clearly ignorant to the facts. The difference between the flu and COVID is that influenza spread is done largely by sick people. There is some evidence that people are contagious a day before becoming ill. With COVID, people are extremely contagious well before symptoms hit, if they ever do, hence the need for masks by people that don’t feel ill. If people want to be taken seriously, they need to drop the flu comparisons when trying to justify irresponsible behavior or calling out some hypocrisy that doesn’t really exist. Either way, this is a discussion of COVID-19 and other illnesses don’t apply.
If we want to talk about hypocrisy, how about the nuts screaming over fetuses while supporting (what they thought would be a packed) a cult rally in the middle of a global pandemic? Fortunately it was an epic flop.
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I get why people want a purist POV. I also understand that it's fair and beneficial to point out hypocrisies. I posted because I got the feeling that people need to rationalize why they abandon logic by pointing out others' potential inconsistencies. All my point was there is always a gradient. I thought Christians understood "everyone is a sinner". Using that logic, no one is going to be pure and perfect. And 100% of us have a level of hypocrisy. The only question is how much/obvious.
