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Nope. God is eternal. He exists outside of space/time. It's common logic...whatever created the universe (and time) has to exist outside of it. Of course, logic isn't necessarily a strong suit of the neo-atheist crowd.
And therein lays the fundamental failure of the Cosmological Argument.
By conceding the existence of an eternal thing (in this case God) you have removed any basis to argue that the universe is not eternal.
And of course... an eternal universe would not violate the premises of the Cosmological Argument in the way that an eternal God does.
Last edited by HistorianDude; 11-30-2010 at 04:08 PM..
LOL, is this true? They really have billboards like that?
As one who used to regularly drive back and forth across the country (by several different routes), I can vouch for that. First time I saw them was in the late 1980s, so they're nothing 'new'.
And some will survive on wishful thinking, pretending it's real....facts? Proof?.....Who needs facts and proof when make-believe is so much more fun.
I am not "making things up" or pretending something is real. The ones who are pretending are those who think we exist for only 70 or 80 years compared to an eternity. You will see when your times comes, which hopefully won't be for quite a while.
Some people go through severe challenges. There are several reasons why. They may have been a murderer in a previous life or they have need a learning experience. Sometimes it's to save other lives. For instance, let's say a man gets run over by a drunk driver and is killed. Of course, that is a terrible thing which happens but since the drunk driver is in jail, it may have prevented him killing even more people if he didn't hit that man.
Yes you can. 5-year-olds tell stories all the time... even those who were not near death.
If they are not near death, then it's not an NDE (near death experience). Some do have an OBE (out of body experience), maybe you are referring to that. In either case, 5-year olds have said things which they could not have known.
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Correction. It doesn't change what the 5-year-old said happened to him. If you have ever had a 5-year-old of your own, you would know full well that the connection between what they say happened and what actually happened is often tenuous.
And you would know the difference between a 5-year-olds typical imagination and and actual experience.
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It is one thing to have an open mind. It is another entirely to let your brains fall out on the floor
That's true. And having an open mind includes the possibility and even probability of an afterlife. No afterlife would mean no reunion with family and friends and I can't think of anything worse than an eternity of being alone and/or not even existing.
I do find it interesting that the athiests' are basically piggy-backing the Christmas season to get "their word out" - "Reason" would dictate the message would be as strong in July as in December, right?
Is the Athiest message that weak?? Yup, they can't even sell it to themselves!
The message of this billboard was to directly insult those who believe in Jesus Christ, which is why they illustrated the story of the three wise men. If they did not want to target a specific religious group, then they should have left that imagery out of it and made it more "generic." They specificly targeted Christians for insult. That is quite obvious.
What I would like to know is why they don't put up billboards insulting other religions? How about Islam? Why not throw up something in jest during Ramadan? Are they afraid of the backlash or the negative media attention? How about the Hindus, or the Jews? Heck, put up a picture of thousands of gods with a big text block over it asking, "Which one, guys??" Oh, the Christians deserve it because they're always in everyone's face telling them they're going to hell, right? That's like saying I have the right to punch every black person in the face that I see because maybe 5 or 6 of them have insulted me throughout my life for being white.
They did not put this billboard up to simply exercise their freedom of speech. They did it with malicious intent. "Oh, but what about all of those other 'Christian' billboards that are on the road that I see all the time?" The people that put up those billboards need to think twice about their approach and how effective it is. I don't agree with that approach, but I also don't think that two wrongs make a right.
I get tired of listening to people go on and on about how "hypocritical" Christians are, how they list all the things wrong with them, as if we deserve every "punishment" coming to us. Christians do not believe they are saints or without sin. If you meet one who does, they are not Christian. Christians humble themselves before God, asking for forgiveness from Christ who died on the cross for our sins. We have been given a free gift of salvation, a gift that none of us deserve; a gift that cannot be "earned" by good works or attempts at perfection. We all fall short as we were born sinners. This is what Christians believe. I honestly believe that many in this forum who have thrown insults to Christianity have either been exposed to false teachers who caused them to have a bad experience, or have interpreted the Bible in a manner that feels good to them (or bad, as there is so much negativity in here).
People say that Christians are "full of hate," but I have experienced more hate and judgement from non-Christians after they learn I attend church more than anyone else. I am not in anyone's face, but when asked a question, I answer honestly. It is called persecution, and God predicted it a long time ago. He said, "The world will hate you because they hated Me first." And so it is, and so it will forever be.
Which one is more hateful, threatening and malicious?
Yeah but see the problem is that you literally WILL burn in hell for eternity if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. You can try to convince yourself that God doesn't exist, but the fact is he does. Your religion Atheism (because we all know Atheism is officially classified as a religion but some of your comrade are simply too dense and uneducated to comprehend that) is nothing but fishing for attention and to get a rise out of other people. I know BS when I see BS and that billboard is BS. I don't see gays (a minority group) putting up billboards saying "Hey! Be gay now and use common sense!". You know you people make no sense. And you wonder why your the most hated and least trusted minority group. At least we as Christians care about your ungrateful and spoiled rotten arses enough to consistently try to get you saved so you won't go that horrible place called hell. But it seems that is what you want. So be it then. I could care less to be honest because you people have no respect for people of different beliefs than you. You climb onto the liberal bandwagon just because you want to spite Christians. You call us homophobic and bigots but it's really your religion that is the lowest class and least self-respecting group of people on Earth. Atheist are full of negative energy and I don't understand how any of you people can stand to be next to each other and converse with each other for more than 5 minutes. I'll kill myself before sitting there listening to an Atheist go off on why they think there is no God when the truth is they are sinning recklessly and will go to hell but don't want to give up their sins.
I'd pay for a big billboard with a picture of hell that says
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Such an agressive, rude, accusatory, demeaning, belittling post! And may I add quite condradicting to both your religion and own words?
Atheism is an "offical" religion? When have I studied athiesm? Convincing myself... ah o.k. I appearently was unaware that as an athiest I need to convince myself of anything at all. Perhaps this is my flaw of my 'religion'
What organization deems it as Offical?
Getting a rise out of others? Uhm, no. I am a reserved individual.
Most hated and and least trusted. Ben Franklin would have laughed at this im sure.
Bigot: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. "you people"
"least we as Christians care"/"I could care less" <---oops.
Please note that athiesm and a site such as athiesm.org are VERY different all together. The organization is skeptical inquiry, whom most also happen to be athiest. The sites name is a misrepresentation of its actual purpose. Please feel free to gain knowledge before calling people "simply too dense and uneducated". I've done my homework
Merry Christmas and have a loving holiday. - The Athiest.
If they are not near death, then it's not an NDE (near death experience).
And yet, they are always not near death when they are telling their stories.
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Originally Posted by Fleet
Some do have an OBE (out of body experience), maybe you are referring to that. In either case, 5-year olds have said things which they could not have known.
5-year-olds make up things they do not know all the time. Sometimes they are even right. Blind squirrel. Occasional nut. You know the drill.
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Originally Posted by Fleet
And you would know the difference between a 5-year-olds typical imagination and and actual experience.
I would? Sorry.... I raised a few of 'em. It can be very, very hard to tell.
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Originally Posted by Fleet
That's true. And having an open mind includes the possibility and even probability of an afterlife. No afterlife would mean no reunion with family and friends and I can't think of anything worse than an eternity of being alone and/or not even existing.
That is why people want so badly to believe in an afterlife.
I do find it interesting that the athiests' are basically piggy-backing the Christmas season to get "their word out" - "Reason" would dictate the message would be as strong in July as in December, right?
They do. And it is.
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Originally Posted by cougfan
Is the Athiest message that weak?? Yup, they can't even sell it to themselves!
You are not even making sense. Why would they need to sell it to themselves?
I do find it interesting that the athiests' are basically piggy-backing the Christmas season to get "their word out" - "Reason" would dictate the message would be as strong in July as in December, right?
No.
Since one of the stated goals of the billboard was to address the myth that Christianity owns the solstice season, it would make perfect sense to put up the billboard during the solstice season.
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compare and contrast...
When have I studied athiesm? Convincing myself... ah o.k. I appearently was unaware that as an athiest I need to convince myself of anything at all. Perhaps this is my flaw of my 'religion' 
