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Didn't you say "I don't see why not...of course, some people have to work and if they're working they might be better served by attending either the CBT or REBT groups I mentioned. At any rate, I think medication should be mandatory while attending." What part of mandatory medication did I misunderstand?
And isn't "survival of the fittest" the same as "those who persevere"? And you think only those with money should survive?
I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to understand.
Let me put it to you this way. If someone is court ordered into the psych ward here, they are ordered to take psych meds. If they don't comply, they are injected. OK?
I proposed an alternative between jail or treatment with meds.
And no, survival of the fittest is Darwinistic in nature and those who perservere simply means not giving up.
Yeah, he tried WW. He just finds that the concepts espoused in a 12 step program worked really well for him. He also has a severely alcoholic parent and the 12 step program helped him to come to terms with his anger with that parent. I dont think my nephew is particularly religious, he is a lapsed Catholic, but nothing else has worked for him. I am not sure what he considers his "higher power", he has made reference to that in conversations with him but I don't think it is "God" per se. Maybe it is a better, stronger something in his subconscious that is more powerful than what he can drag up consciously...I don't know. It works for him and that is all that counts....who cares, really.
eta: are you researching and writing a book ?
You know what? GOOD! If he has found it to work for him, that is all that matters. I am happy it is working for him. If it ever stops working for him, he can know there are other alternatives "out there" for him.
I understand you are a diehard AAer and so be it. I don't care.
Believe it or not, the world is changing. AA will not be around forever. You're right. It may not go away in my lifetime, but it will, much like blood-letting for depression went away centuries ago.
You just do not obviously understand that SOME people want to see addiction science advance. Eventually, it will. Just like the snake pit went away as did the lobotomies.
No one is claming AA will be around forever.
AA does not impede addiction science from advancing in anyway. At all. In any fashion. Anyone that tells you different is a big fat liar. And even if science comes up with a cure it does not mean AA will go away. Alcoholism is a disease of both mind and body. It's doubtful a pill (which is what passes for medical "cures" these days) can fix both.
Anyway, I'm tired of all this. You have your mind made up. Millions of people have gotten and stayed sober through AA. They live happy and productive lives. And all you wanna do is say nobody can get sober in AA. AA is a religion. AA members are murderers, thugs and raptists. AA members force other members to commit suicide. AA members lie about their sobriety. AA threatens the existence of other programs. AA threatens the advancement of science. Yada, yada, yada.
And all evidence says you are exactly wrong on every point. Every one. No reason in discussing any longer.
If you do have a problem with alcohol or other addiction I hope you find a solution. Whether it be AA or not doesn't matter to me. I do have one piece of advice. You can make up as much stuff as you want to about AA. Nobody really cares. And anyone that knows anything about AA can see right through you.
AA does not impede addiction science from advancing in anyway. At all. In any fashion. Anyone that tells you different is a big fat liar. And even if science comes up with a cure it does not mean AA will go away. Alcoholism is a disease of both mind and body. It's doubtful a pill (which is what passes for medical "cures" these days) can fix both.
Like hell it doesn't. Addictionologists are telling people to go to AA. And I mean MDs who specialize in addiction. And whether alcoholISM is a disease or not is quite open to debate. According to AAers: your disease is out in the parking lot doing pushups. According to the AMA: It is. According to others like Stanton Peele: It's not.
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Anyway, I'm tired of all this. You have your mind made up. Millions of people have gotten and stayed sober through AA. They live happy and productive lives. And all you wanna do is say nobody can get sober in AA. AA is a religion. AA members are murderers, thugs and raptists. AA members force other members to commit suicide. AA members lie about their sobriety. AA threatens the existence of other programs. AA threatens the advancement of science. Yada, yada, yada.
You think YOU'RE tired of it? I was only thrown into my first AA meeting 34 years ago. Tell ME about being tired of it. Of course, according to AA mythology, I should be either jailed, institutionalized or dead, right? And I am none of the above. If anything, I have just mellowed over the years.
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And all evidence says you are exactly wrong on every point. Every one. No reason in discussing any longer.
Aha, see my above point.
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If you do have a problem with alcohol or other addiction I hope you find a solution. Whether it be AA or not doesn't matter to me. I do have one piece of advice. You can make up as much stuff as you want to about AA. Nobody really cares. And anyone that knows anything about AA can see right through you.
My only "problem" is dealing with misinformed people such as yourself who don't have the history and knowledge I do with the subject matter at hand.
My only "problem" is dealing with misinformed people such as yourself who don't have the history and knowledge I do with the subject matter at hand.
Typical misty...knows everything about everything and no one but misty can decide what's best for other people.
If you're such an authority, misty, why is your life such an obvious mess?
For the others...since misty thankfully has me on ignore...is it the truth that AA is often used in conjunction with other therapies?
And isn't it also helpful when an alcoholic is trying to establish a social life other than the one they had when they were drinking? My friend who has been sober for a long time told me that that was one of the best things about AA...social interaction was important to her and it wasn't possible for her to hang out with her old crowd.
Typical misty...knows everything about everything and no one but misty can decide what's best for other people.
If you're such an authority, misty, why is your life such an obvious mess?
For the others...since misty thankfully has me on ignore...is it the truth that AA is often used in conjunction with other therapies?
And isn't it also helpful when an alcoholic is trying to establish a social life other than the one they had when they were drinking? My friend who has been sober for a long time told me that that was one of the best things about AA...social interaction was important to her and it wasn't possible for her to hang out with her old crowd.
I took you off ignore long enough to report this, which I will. I deem this to be a personal attack.
You don't know me or anything about my life, but your inferences are most definitely not welcome.
I took you off ignore long enough to report this, which I will. I deem this to be a personal attack.
You don't know me or anything about my life, but your inferences are most definitely not welcome.
Pretty much all of your posts directed at anyone who doesn't agree with you are personal attacks against others. Your 911 thread is full of them, many directed at me.
By your own standards a lot of your replies to people in this thread are reportable as well.
I understand you are a diehard AAer and so be it. I don't care.
Believe it or not, the world is changing. AA will not be around forever. You're right. It may not go away in my lifetime, but it will, much like blood-letting for depression went away centuries ago.
You just do not obviously understand that SOME people want to see addiction science advance. Eventually, it will. Just like the snake pit went away as did the lobotomies.
Oh please.
I'm not a die-hard AA. Whatever that is.
Just like I'm not a sell-out Republican, as you've called me.
But I do know how to stay sober, and my foundation is in AA.
I do what they suggest, take what works for me and leave the rest.
There are people who have PhD and looking for understanding, and I do know several. At the moment, this is the best that there is.
Some other programs just remove the word god, big whoop.
Again, the doors are always open for those who want to recover.
Pretty much all of your posts directed at anyone who doesn't agree with you are personal attacks against others. Your 911 thread is full of them, many directed at me.
By your own standards a lot of your replies to people in this thread are reportable as well.
No, believe it or not, it actually has to be the actual hubris of language like "why is your life an actual mess" or some such, before I get ticked off, when you obviously don't know me from Adam.
Now, as I stated, it WAS a personal attack and you go back on ignore. The mods can deal with this one. I've reported it (and I never report things), so it is up to them.
No, believe it or not, it actually has to be the actual hubris of language like "why is your life an actual mess" or some such, before I get ticked off, when you obviously don't know me from Adam.
Now, as I stated, it WAS a personal attack and you go back on ignore. The mods can deal with this one. I've reported it (and I never report things), so it is up to them.
This forum has a fair amount of posts by you stating that your life is a mess, that you can't find work or make friends. I haven't said anything that you haven't said yourself. And this entire thread is full of personal attacks that you have made towards others...such as calling people who don't agree with you ignorant and uninformed.
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