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I'm certainly not lying about what happened to this woman, as I know her personally. As to the rest, you only need do a search on the Net and you can come across several anti XA sites out there with plenty of actual stories with links to actual newspaper articles. Just the other day I found one and it was rather tragic, but I won't get into details.
And when there are very few of these other groups out there because the courts only send people to XA, what do you expect? I guess it's a good thing for these other groups though and a not so good thing for XA.
I've read every one of DickBs books. He never says AA is affiliated with the Oxford Group. Because it isn't and never was. He says they got ideas form the Oxford Group. Again, what is wrong with that?
As long as XA (meaning any 12 step group) is upfront about it, it's much easier to accept as such and more upfront. Those with a religious bent are more likely to benefit from it. But pretending to be all things to all people by using the word "spiritual" just does not work. Even if one (is lucky enough to) escapes the Lord's prayer at the end, one ends up with the Serenity Prayer which still says "God..." I would think it would be much better and more inclusive to have a Jewish prayer, a Hindu prayer, an Islam prayer, etc to really make it inclusive and not pretend it's not a Christian group.
If one doesn't like the prayers at the beginning and/or beginning of a meeting they are free to start their own meeting without them. And I have been to meetings with no formal rayer at the beginning or end. No one pretends it is a Chrisitian Group. I hear more crticism of Christianity by AA members in meetings than any other subject. And I would say the majority of people I have met in AA (which is thousands) do not go to a Christian church. And praying does equal religion. Again there is no rule that says one must participate in any prayer. I have known people that don't. Nobody cares. Or even notices most of the time.
No, actually I do believe AA has a 5% success rate, so that would mean 95% drink again. I guess you could always read the Orange Papers to see how they arrived at that number. And tell me about not always being honest. Do you really believe that everyone who claims to have X amount of TIME hasn't imbibed somewhere in there? I am not saying the majority, but some do.
You believe AA has a 5% success rate? LOLs. Good for you. Again so what? If 5% get sober that is better than anything else ever designed to combat alcoholism. Again no one can come up with a certain number because there is no way to keep track. I suspect it is closer to 50%. And AA doesn't promise anyone sobriety. Anyone that thinks AA should have a 100 percent success rate is a moron. Anyone that thinks AA is a failure because it doesn't have a 100% success rate is a moron.
Well, no one has provided me any link to support the assertion that it was the episcopalians or methodists who played the biggest role in early AA, unless these groups were most active in the Oxford Group.
Read DickBs books. "New Light on Alcoholism" would be a good start.
You should really go to some open meetings of AA sometime. It's obviuous that you have no clue what you are talking about. You should also get over your resentment against religion.
Again let us say you are correct. AA is a religious organization. So what? What wrong with religion?
Last edited by OhioIstheBest; 01-29-2011 at 11:42 AM..
I don't see why not...of course, some people have to work and if they're working they might be better served by attending either the CBT or REBT groups I mentioned. At any rate, I think medication should be mandatory while attending.
Taking drugs should be mandatory for addicts.
This is a joke post, right?
"No, actually I do believe AA has a 5% success rate, so that would mean 95% drink again. I guess you could always read the Orange Papers to see how they arrived at that number. And tell me about not always being honest. Do you really believe that everyone who claims to have X amount of TIME hasn't imbibed somewhere in there? I am not saying the majority, but some do."
Let us say your 5% is true (I don't believe it, having my "dog in this hunt," however), how long did these people stay sober before they drank? 6 weeks? 6 months? 6 years? Whatever the time, they were sober during it, which is the goal. Yes, I realize many people come back to AA and other rehab programs. However, at least they are trying.
Anyone who has ever read what I post know I am no bleeding heart liberal; far from it. Most think I am Hitler reincarnated. However, on this issue, I do have a soft spot. Drugs and alcohol cost this country alot of money and much of it could be saved with early intervention of treatment programs; including AA.
Now, if you have the Super Utopia Program, which has a much higher success rate, I'm all for it. Roll it out and lets get people on it and going. Again, I have no problem with my tax dollar paying for it.
I'm certainly not lying about what happened to this woman, as I know her personally. As to the rest, you only need do a search on the Net and you can come across several anti XA sites out there with plenty of actual stories with links to actual newspaper articles. Just the other day I found one and it was rather tragic, but I won't get into details.
And when there are very few of these other groups out there because the courts only send people to XA, what do you expect? I guess it's a good thing for these other groups though and a not so good thing for XA.
So you blame AA because the courts send people there? LOLs.
AA has millions of members. Some of them have done some bad things. Big deal. Please find me one group that large that doesn't have a few questionable characters. And AA doesn't teach anything about crime or threatening people or anything like that. So if some people behave badly you can't logically blame AA. You can logically blame the individual.
MAybe you should petition the court in your area to send people somewhere besides AA. That would probably be a better use of your time.
Cheap shot (gee, who woulda thunk it), but then again, just how do you think I know so much? I haven't invested years of my life reading up on all of this stuff for no reason.
Why, I should have an honorary PsyD in all of this myself.
Religion is a crutch. If it is the only thing that can help some people recover from addiction, I guess it is the lesser of two problems. What I don't like about religion is that it tells people it is okay to suffer in this life, because in the "next life" they will be rewarded. As a child, this is what I was told by the Roman Catholic Church and as a result I learned not to fight to better my situation. This is a very bad lesson.
We only go around once; we need to make the best use of our time here. And from long experience, I've learned that the most religious people are the first ones to rip you off and cheat you, so I don't think religion makes people act better at all.
I have talked to alot of people wh used it syccessfully with alcohol.so I thnik thsoe not likig it ca do what they want.
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