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My mother in law runs a recovery clinic in Alameda County. Both for drugs and alcohol abuse (yes, before some smarta$$ says it, I know alcohol is a drug). I'm often brought in and help teach during certain parts of the courses (this includes DUI schools).
While the 12 Step Program maybe old and outdated, like it or not, it HAS worked for MILLIONS of people, across the world. Due certain things need to be updated, again, probably; however, how about coming up with the changes you would like to see, and put forth them? Whining about it won't change anything.
In so far as criminals being in these meetings, yes, you are correct. They are quite often court ordered to go; why? Because it works? Where I live, there are many female meetings only. Predators? Well, aren't you an adult? You are there trying to get clean/sober, not find a date for Friday night. If you can't say "no," or turn that person off, you have bigger issues then being in a 12 Step Program. Predators are everywhere.
Well, the structure right off the bat. One reads the same thing over and over, much like a church service. In the case of the 12 steps, it's the reading at the beginning - you know, the same reading over and over. Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path, blah, blah, blah. In a church, they have structure and similar rituals at the beginning of the service. The "share," is much like a sermon. The whole concept of I am a POS, much like the concept of I am a sinner, the 8th and 9th steps, much like atonement and asking for forgiveness in the church or confession in the Catholic church...you get my drift. It's actually quite easy to compare the two, except in the former (12 step) your chances of running into criminals or screwed up people are normally quite higher than in the church (except maybe the Baptist church).
Wow, your hatred of religion is shining through. You may not agree with the whole church thing, but many people get something out of it. And it's not up to you to decide if that's a good thing or bad thing. Same with the 12 step.
First question, how would you know what AA does or does not do?
Second question, wanting to promote other choices is no waste of time. This battle won't be won by people not having more choices.
Third point, are you aware that in AA people have been told to quit their meds prescribed by their Drs. in the name of "that's not "real" sobriety" only to commit suicide?
Fourth, this isn't about ME, it's about all the people out there who have been brainwashed by AA to believe they have two choices - go to AA or drink and die.
Now, I really look forward to your answering my questions.
Wow, your hatred of religion is shining through. You may not agree with the whole church thing, but many people get something out of it. And it's not up to you to decide if that's a good thing or bad thing. Same with the 12 step.
I'd prefer to call it disdain for religion. So what? Some people like it, some people don't. It has been called the opium for the masses and if it works for you, fine. It does not for everyone.
As long as people are upfront about things (and stop with the nonsense that these 12 step programs are "spiritual" and not religious), I am fine with it. The courts have ruled these programs are religious.
I'd prefer to call it disdain for religion. So what? Some people like it, some people don't. It has been called the opium for the masses and if it works for you, fine. It does not for everyone.
As long as people are upfront about things (and stop with the nonsense that these 12 step programs are "spiritual" and not religious), I am fine with it. The courts have rules these programs are religious.
Exactly. The point of AA and the 12 Step Program, is to work for the MASSES. It is the ONE PROVEN substance abuse program, which has stood the tests of time. You can call it a cult, or whatever. Religious or not. I honestly think most people do not care what you think and/or do not think.
The program is there, to get people WHO WANT HELP, clean and sober. And, as someone else said, I could care less if he/she learns to bark at the moon, pray to the Tiki God's, or swim in the Artic Ocean. IF it helps them stay away from a substance, which is harming them and, more importantly, harming others, I'm all for it.
In fact, it is one of the few things, I personally would not mind seeing tax funded (and that is a HUGE thing for me to say).
First question, how would you know what AA does or does not do?
Second question, wanting to promote other choices is no waste of time. This battle won't be won by people not having more choices.
Third point, are you aware that in AA people have been told to quit their meds prescribed by their Drs. in the name of "that's not "real" sobriety" only to commit suicide?
Fourth, this isn't about ME, it's about all the people out there who have been brainwashed by AA to believe they have two choices - go to AA or drink and die.
Now, I really look forward to your answering my questions.
I have worked with people who have drug and alcohol problems.
I have attended AA meetings. I know quite a bit about the program, the people who attend it and what goes on in meetings.
As I said before, it is not perfect but it works for those who want it to.
When you're working with addicts - regardless of their drug of choice - there are going to be problems. One of the biggest problems that addicts face has to do with avoidance. Avoidance of painful issues can manifest in many different ways. It's very common that addicts attack the messenger rather than face themselves. Their patterns of negative thinking and being critical of those who are trying to help them just keeps them in bondage.
I honestly feel sorry for you. I feel your pain.
But, again, it is obvious to me that AA is not your demon.
Last edited by World Citizen; 01-29-2011 at 10:52 AM..
I'd prefer to call it disdain for religion. So what? Some people like it, some people don't. It has been called the opium for the masses and if it works for you, fine. It does not for everyone.
As long as people are upfront about things (and stop with the nonsense that these 12 step programs are "spiritual" and not religious), I am fine with it. The courts have ruled these programs are religious.
And I see hatred. Mommy issues, maybe?
You say "so what", but at the same time you're calling for an end to a program that works because you hate religion.
In it's stead, you're calling for more drugs. Prescribed and mandated by a judge not a doctor.
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Avoidance is why they drink in the first place...
