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Exactly. The point of AA and the 12 Step Program, is to work for the MASSES. It is the ONE PROVEN substance abuse program, which has stood the tests of time. You can call it a cult, or whatever. Religious or not. I honestly think most people do not care what you think and/or do not think.
The program is there, to get people WHO WANT HELP, clean and sober. And, as someone else said, I could care less if he/she learns to bark at the moon, pray to the Tiki God's, or swim in the Artic Ocean. IF it helps them stay away from a substance, which is harming them and, more importantly, harming others, I'm all for it.
In fact, it is one of the few things, I personally would not mind seeing tax funded (and that is a HUGE thing for me to say).
It is sure cheaper the prison.
And that is where many end up. (where BTW, they have AA meetings)
You say "so what", but at the same time you're calling for an end to a program that works because you hate religion.
In it's stead, you're calling for more drugs. Prescribed and mandated by a judge not a doctor.
You can see whatever you want to see and I say projection much?
I'm not calling for an end, maybe a back seat for a while so these other programs can get on their feet, but not an end.
A judge is not a Dr. and should never prescribe drugs. Likewise, no member of any XA group should ever tell another member to stop taking Dr. prescribed drugs and this was commonplace years ago, to the extent XA had to come out with a publication telling its members to knock it off.
Still, and to this day, there are members in 12 step meetings who will not reveal they take meds for fear of judgment.
ETA: I have a story about this. There is this woman who heads up a SMART meeting. So she decided to go to the local AA club and put flyers on cars to promote SMART (as one never knows - perhaps for some it would have been a better fit). So she is all of 5 feet and 100 lbs. This guy comes out of AA and threatens her calling her a POS and then goes back in for reinforcement. She calmly explained to both of them that what she was doing was legal and asked them why they would not want people to have more choices. If you ask me, that woman had guts. I, personally, would not have done it for fear of getting beaten up or something. This is why I'd like to see XA take a back seat for a while.
Last edited by mistygrl092; 01-29-2011 at 10:59 AM..
Reason: add story
No, it was the Oxford group (Now if that has its roots in the Episcopal and Methodist Churches you're right).
Statement two - how would we know? Everything is anonymous? And people are not always honest yunno.
My mother is a diabetic and doing just fine. My friend had cancer and is doing just fine. Both had medical treatment.
Oh, and I was using the Baptists as an example as I think they are somewhat radical. My mother was brought up one and everything is a sin - playing cards, dancing, etc.
AA is not affiliated with the Oxford Group. And never was. Some of the earliest AA members of AA went to the Oxford Group. After a while they realized that the Oxford Group was not going to help them achieve long-term sobriety. They then started Alcoholics Anonymous. It was and is completely seperate from the Oxford Group.
Let's say you are correct. AA is a religious organization. What difference does that make? It's no big secret AA got plenty of ideas from religion. So what? They also got ideas from medicine, business leaders and personal experience. You could just as easily say AA is a medical organization or a business organization.
Statement two: you posted a link that said 90% of all AA members end up drunk. How would you know? Everything is anonymous? And people are not always honest. They could be lying about getting snickered.
Your use of Baptists is pretty dumb example. Since it was Episcopal and Methodist ministers that were the most beneficial to early AA, not Baptists.
Last edited by OhioIstheBest; 01-29-2011 at 11:13 AM..
You can see whatever you want to see and I say projection much?
I'm not calling for an end, maybe a back seat for a while so these other programs can get on their feet, but not an end.
A judge is not a Dr. and should never prescribe drugs. Likewise, no member of any XA group should ever tell another member to stop taking Dr. prescribed drugs and this was commonplace years ago, to the extent XA had to come out with a publication telling its members to knock it off.
Still, and to this day, there are members in 12 step meetings who will not reveal they take meds for fear of judgment.
ETA: I have a story about this. There is this woman who heads up a SMART meeting. So she decided to go to the local AA club and put flyers on cars to promote SMART (as one never knows - perhaps for some it would have been a better fit). So she is all of 5 feet and 100 lbs. This guy comes out of AA and threatens her calling her a POS and then goes back in for reinforcement. She calmly explained to both of them that what she was doing was legal and asked them why they would not want people to have more choices. If you ask me, that woman had guts. I, personally, would not have done it for fear of getting beaten up or something. This is why I'd like to see XA take a back seat for a while.
Let everyone pick their own way of help.
The important thing is they get the help they need.
You can see whatever you want to see and I say projection much?
I'm not calling for an end, maybe a back seat for a while so these other programs can get on their feet, but not an end.
A judge is not a Dr. and should never prescribe drugs. Likewise, no member of any XA group should ever tell another member to stop taking Dr. prescribed drugs and this was commonplace years ago, to the extent XA had to come out with a publication telling its members to knock it off.
Still, and to this day, there are members in 12 step meetings who will not reveal they take meds for fear of judgment.
ETA: I have a story about this. There is this woman who heads up a SMART meeting. So she decided to go to the local AA club and put flyers on cars to promote SMART (as one never knows - perhaps for some it would have been a better fit). So she is all of 5 feet and 100 lbs. This guy comes out of AA and threatens her calling her a POS and then goes back in for reinforcement. She calmly explained to both of them that what she was doing was legal and asked them why they would not want people to have more choices. If you ask me, that woman had guts. I, personally, would not have done it for fear of getting beaten up or something. This is why I'd like to see XA take a back seat for a while.
It's amazing. Every little experience you have had with AA someone ends up getting threatened, getting bad medical advice, meeting murderes and rapists, committing suicide etc....
I've been to thousands of AA meetings. I have never seen anything more than the occassional argument. Never seen anything close to violence. Never heard anyone tell anyone to stop taking doctor prescribed medication but I've heard plenty of people talk about taking prescription meds for one reason or another.
Methinks you are either making this stuff up or just pulling out a few very extreme examples and trying to suggest that is comon in AA. It's not.
And if these programs work then they will grow. AA need not take a back seat. AA grew only because it worked.
It's amazing. Every little experience you have had with AA someone ends up getting threatened, getting bad medical advice, meeting murderes and rapists, committing suicide etc....
I've been to thousands of AA meetings. I have never seen anything more than the occassional argument. Never seen anything close to violence. Never heard anyone tell anyone to stop taking doctor prescribed medication but I've heard plenty of people talk about taking prescription meds for one reason or another.
Methinks you are either making this stuff up or just pulling out a few very extreme examples and trying to suggest that is comon in AA. It's not.
And if these programs work then they will grow. AA need not take a back seat. AA grew only because it worked.
AA is not affiliated with the Oxford Group. And never was. Some of the earliest AA members of AA went to the Oxford Group. After a while they realized that the Oxford Group was not going to help them achieve long-term sobriety. They then started Alcoholics Anonymous.
Let's say you are correct. AA is a religious organization. What difference does that make? It's no big secret AA got plenty of ideas from religion. So what? They also got ideas from medicine, business leaders and personal experience. You could just as easily say AA is a medical organization or a business organization.
As long as XA (meaning any 12 step group) is upfront about it, it's much easier to accept as such and more upfront. Those with a religious bent are more likely to benefit from it. But pretending to be all things to all people by using the word "spiritual" just does not work. Even if one (is lucky enough to) escapes the Lord's prayer at the end, one ends up with the Serenity Prayer which still says "God..." I would think it would be much better and more inclusive to have a Jewish prayer, a Hindu prayer, an Islam prayer, etc to really make it inclusive and not pretend it's not a Christian group.
Quote:
Statement two: you posted a link that said 90% of all AA members end up drunk. How would you know? Everything is anonymous? And people are not always honest. They could be lying about getting snickered.
No, actually I do believe AA has a 5% success rate, so that would mean 95% drink again. I guess you could always read the Orange Papers to see how they arrived at that number. And tell me about not always being honest. Do you really believe that everyone who claims to have X amount of TIME hasn't imbibed somewhere in there? I am not saying the majority, but some do.
Quote:
Your use of Baptists is pretty dumb example. Since it was Episcopal and Methodist ministers that were the most beneficial to early AA, not Baptists.
Well, no one has provided me any link to support the assertion that it was the episcopalians or methodists who played the biggest role in early AA, unless these groups were most active in the Oxford Group.
It's amazing. Every little experience you have had with AA someone ends up getting threatened, getting bad medical advice, meeting murderes and rapists, committing suicide etc....
I've been to thousands of AA meetings. I have never seen anything more than the occassional argument. Never seen anything close to violence. Never heard anyone tell anyone to stop taking doctor prescribed medication but I've heard plenty of people talk about taking prescription meds for one reason or another.
Methinks you are either making this stuff up or just pulling out a few very extreme examples and trying to suggest that is comon in AA. It's not.
And if these programs work then they will grow. AA need not take a back seat. AA grew only because it worked.
I'm certainly not lying about what happened to this woman, as I know her personally. As to the rest, you only need do a search on the Net and you can come across several anti XA sites out there with plenty of actual stories with links to actual newspaper articles. Just the other day I found one and it was rather tragic, but I won't get into details.
And when there are very few of these other groups out there because the courts only send people to XA, what do you expect? I guess it's a good thing for these other groups though and a not so good thing for XA.
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