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Sure, but still, it is an abuse of terms such as Socialist, terms that have an international, pretty well defined meaning.
Regarding your statistics, let me give you an analogy:
Say we define some standard weight and ask people on this board whether they are above or below that weight. 56% say they are lighter, 44% say they are heavier. Does that mean that the average poster on this board is lighter than the standard weight? Not necessarily because those that are heavier may be on average, say, 20kg heavier than the standard, while those that are lighter may be on average, say, 5kg lighter than the standard.
And even the standard weight itself may already be quite heavy by international terms
When the debate is regarding the weight of people on the message board, who the hell cares about the international standards?
And I will try to use less facts when talking to you in the future. The base numbers in this poll show that this forum clearly lies more liberal than conservative, and my math did nothing but statistically validate the poll, within a 6% margin of error. I am not sure what analysis needs to be done with confidence intervals. They are pretty straight forward.
It doesn't show this at all, because you are operating under the assumption that people right-leaning and left-leaning people are equally likely to vote in the poll.
Suppose the forum really does lie towards the right. If you're on the left, you have significant incentive to vote to get across the "I told you so" phenomenon, which is clearly reflected in the poll numbers. If you're on the right, however, it's not so clear, because you either have to be honest and go against what you want to do, or be delusional and say the board leans left. A lot of people on the right might say "I'm not getting involved with this," whereas the people on the left are saying "Haha... Vindicated!" in terms of this poll. The same thing would happen if the forum truly lied to the left, except switch "right" and "left."
So I think what this poll shows is the following:
1. The left has more people voting in this poll. They strongly believe it lies to the right.
2. The right has less people voting in this poll. They believe moderately that it lies to the left.
3. It's probably closer to the center than any of us want to acknowledge.
It doesn't show this at all, because you are operating under the assumption that people right-leaning and left-leaning people are equally likely to vote in the poll.
Suppose the forum really does lie towards the right. If you're on the left, you have significant incentive to vote to get across the "I told you so" phenomenon, which is clearly reflected in the poll numbers. If you're on the right, however, it's not so clear, because you either have to be honest and go against what you want to do, or be delusional and say the board leans left. A lot of people on the right might say "I'm not getting involved with this," whereas the people on the left are saying "Haha... Vindicated!" in terms of this poll. The same thing would happen if the forum truly lied to the left, except switch "right" and "left."
So I think what this poll shows is the following:
1. The left has more people voting in this poll. They strongly believe it lies to the right.
2. The right has less people voting in this poll. They believe moderately that it lies to the left.
3. It's probably closer to the center than any of us want to acknowledge.
Again, the statistics behind the numbers don't say this. I trust math above someone's opinion.
When the debate is regarding the weight of people on the message board, who the hell cares about the international standards?
Doesn't have to be international ones. But I think it makes little sense to ask people if they are heavy or light with respect to a standard weight that nobody knows or is even defined in hindsight by the outcome of the poll
It doesn't show this at all, because you are operating under the assumption that people right-leaning and left-leaning people are equally likely to vote in the poll.
Suppose the forum really does lie towards the right. If you're on the left, you have significant incentive to vote to get across the "I told you so" phenomenon, which is clearly reflected in the poll numbers. If you're on the right, however, it's not so clear, because you either have to be honest and go against what you want to do, or be delusional and say the board leans left. A lot of people on the right might say "I'm not getting involved with this," whereas the people on the left are saying "Haha... Vindicated!" in terms of this poll. The same thing would happen if the forum truly lied to the left, except switch "right" and "left."
So I think what this poll shows is the following:
1. The left has more people voting in this poll. They strongly believe it lies to the right.
2. The right has less people voting in this poll. They believe moderately that it lies to the left.
3. It's probably closer to the center than any of us want to acknowledge.
I agree, especially with points 1 and 2. They show that the quality result is so to speak inverted compared to the quantity result, and for a reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
Again, the statistics behind the numbers don't say this. I trust math above someone's opinion.
Your maths and statistics don't resemble that, they treat everyone equally, as if it were a Gauß normal distribution or something like that (it probably is not exactly what I mean, my last math classes were decades ago; I am no mathematician, but I do notice when things are being oversimplified).
I see a generic mix of people here, of all ideologies, backgrounds and feelings. Some are capable of intellectual dialogue, while some are so rabidly antianything other they are, it makes in discussion with them irrelevant.
I am more of a constitutionalist than anything. There are things I dislike equally on both the left AND the right.
BTW I didn't vote, because there was not a selection that identifies my observations.
I see a generic mix of people here, of all ideologies, backgrounds and feelings. Some are capable of intellectual dialogue, while some are so rabidly antianything other they are, it makes in discussion with them irrelevant.
I am more of a constitutionalist than anything. There are things I dislike equally on both the left AND the right.
BTW I didn't vote, because there was not a selection that identifies my observations.
That's a good point. Lack of options can also influence the outcome.
Regarding your case, I assume constitutionalists are a bit more to the right, there are many conservative posters on here who keep citing the constitution in their arguments
I agree, especially with points 1 and 2. They show that the quality result is so to speak inverted compared to the quantity result, and for a reason.
Your maths and statistics don't resemble that, they treat everyone equally, as if it were a Gauß normal distribution or something like that (it probably is not exactly what I mean, my last math classes were decades ago; I am no mathematician, but I do notice when things are being oversimplified).
Oversimplified such as relying on intuition and gut feelings beyond a poll and statistical analysis of polling methods? If that is what you are talking about, I agree completely.
All this thread taught me is that the liberals on this board will refuse to admit they are wrong, even in light of facts.
Oversimplified such as relying on intuition and gut feelings beyond a poll and statistical analysis of polling methods? If that is what you are talking about, I agree completely.
All this thread taught me is that the liberals on this board will refuse to admit they are wrong, even in light of facts.
There are several facts here. Indeed, there are slightly more posters to the left than to the right. At the same almost four times as many people on the right (18 vs 5) say this board is of their own political orientation. Don't you see this far outweighs the slight numerical majority of liberal posters? It is conservatives themselves who confirm this board is conservative...
There are several facts here. Indeed, there are slightly more posters to the left than to the right. At the same almost four times as many people on the right (18 vs 5) say this board is of their own political orientation. Don't you see this far outweighs the slight numerical majority of liberal posters? It is conservatives themselves who confirm this board is conservative...
It is amazing to actually see someone twist a poll to make it represent the absolute opposite of what the data says. Impressive spin.
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