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Vasectomies and tubal libigations aren't even 100%.
Better than nothing. Even at 71%, combined with another method with even just 80% accuracy and you have 94%+. And if used correctly, condoms have a much higher rate of effectiveness.
Well I can only speak for myself but I've clarified my position on this. And anyone who says "don't have kids you can't afford" is obviously only referring to people who had those kids at a time when they couldn't afford them.
Okay. Now that we have that established and will note that this thread has turned away from "poor" people complaining to people being upset that people who can't afford children are getting assistance....
When you make that broad brush stroke that "well, you shouldn't complain since you were reckless or chose to have kids you couldn't afford" that a good number of people COULD afford kids when they had them. You would like to punish these people along with the deadbeats out there?
I, too, would like to see better control of the deadbeat breeders but in order to do that, you then punish those who really need help. There's no easy answer.
And to go back to the thread topic: do people REALLY feel that daycare costs are too high? I don't think those people get paid enough. But, yep, it does take a chunk of your income, for sure. I paid it on two kids until they were each about 13 years old.
And they wonder why all these anti-bullying policies have been put in place. This attitude that it's okay to pass judgement and look down on people (calling them stupid and lazy and thinking that they should be denied the same rights as everyone else) that aren't just like you has gotten out of control.
So far in this thread, poor people have been called stupid, lazy and it was said that they shouldn't have children because they breed more poor people. What a F-ed up way to look at the world and other human beings. Where is the compassion? Where is the understanding? You are so right, there is a large group of people who take pride in being inhumane and personally I would rather see a compassionate poor person have a child then one of these inhumane, selfish bullies.
These cruel horrors on this forum are the same people who bullied and destroyed the happiness of their fellow students in school. Nasty, small minded ignorant bullies who are so terrified by anything different that they must try to destroy it. How they look in the mirror or sleep at night is beyond me. But I do know that one day they will have to look into the face of the one who will say; "Whatsoever you did to the least of these you did to me." I would not want to be in their shoes.
When you make that broad brush stroke that "well, you shouldn't complain since you were reckless or chose to have kids you couldn't afford" that a good number of people COULD afford kids when they had them. You would like to punish these people along with the deadbeats out there?
I wouldn't like to punish those people. I've been trying to find some stats on how many kids were born into poverty vs how many were not but are now in poverty due to the economy etc... I can't seem to find much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineVA
I, too, would like to see better control of the deadbeat breeders but in order to do that, you then punish those who really need help. There's no easy answer.
And to go back to the thread topic: do people REALLY feel that daycare costs are too high? I don't think those people get paid enough. But, yep, it does take a chunk of your income, for sure. I paid it on two kids until they were each about 13 years old.
Yes, I think the cost of daycare is too high. I'll also add that I don't think daycare teachers are paid enough. My main issue is the greedy daycare COMPANIES. They pay the teachers crap wages yet charge parents a fortune...at least around here. For a daycare center here (Boston area) and infant/toddler costs over $1500 per month for full time care. Times that by 2 young children and that a HUGE amount of money every month. Like I said before, that's $30K per year for two kids.
If you're salary is average at even $50-60K (and of course that's before taxes, insurance, etc. being take out) it sure doesn't leave much extra. There are in-home options that cost less but from my experience the hours are less flexible, you're trusting someone alone w/ your kid vs. having multiple trained staff watching them, and the preschool aged kids suffer since there typically isn't a preschool program at in-home centers. I'll add that I am totally generalizing and I'm sure there are fantastic in-home centers that have a preschool program. I just didn't find any in my town. I also understand the Boston area is probably on the high-end for what daycare costs.
These cruel horrors on this forum are the same people who bullied and destroyed the happiness of their fellow students in school. Nasty, small minded ignorant bullies who are so terrified by anything different that they must try to destroy it. How they look in the mirror or sleep at night is beyond me. But I do know that one day they will have to look into the face of the one who will say; "Whatsoever you did to the least of these you did to me." I would not want to be in their shoes.
"If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered" --Proverbs 21:13
But let me tell you about what somebody said to me on my HOA forums last night. We were discussing adding a boatload of speedbumps to the neighborhood to discourage the behavior of people cutting through our streets to avoid lights. Anyway, I said I would support "speed mounds" or "speed hills" OR speed BUMPS if they have indents to allow two-wheeled vehicles to safely pass (I won't go into the hilarity that ensued the day I tried to cross over rather than around the giant bumps in the parking complex at work on my bike). I commute 90-95% of the days on a motorcycle (65-70 MPG).
Guy told me "you don't have kids so we're not interested in your opinion" and another guy seconded the motion that my opinion wasn't worth spit because I'm child-free.
There's constant bigotry against child-free singles and couples at work as well. Somebody who's child-free is a second-class citizen when it comes to illness days, vacation picks, weekends/evenings required, etc. (I get a triple-whammy of bigotry because I'm also an atheist and a libertarian, but I digress). Bullies?
Maybe this post is off-topic, and maybe I'll create a new thread to further it. It just seems a little telling to me that the idea of not having children is met by disdain and name-calling. Should everyone be child-free? No, it's not for everyone, but it should be for a lot more people than it is. Much like Christianity (where people feign it because it's just the thing to do and they don't really know how to think outside of rigid societal guidelines), procreating seems to be something some people do just for the hell of it. Why is my sister's childhood friend pregnant with her sixth kid now when the third, fourth, and fifth are already overburdening the family as far as time and money? Why are people having children when by and large they're miserable about it?
Let's pretend for a second that not all of the poor people who have children are lazy, idle pieces of human garbage, like most of the right-wingers on this board choose to believe. Let's pretend that they are simply poor, hard-working people who made a mistake, since, you know, growing up impoverished doesn't really help prepare you to make great life choices at every turn, even if you are a savvy and careful individual.
Is it in the best interest of our society to give those people the opportunity to raise their children in a decent environment by providing affordable childcare, recognizing that though many of these people are simply not up to the task of being parents, many are struggling as hard as they can to provide for their kids?
Or is it in the best interest of our society to consider their plight as punishment for their foolish decision, refuse to encourage programs or initiatives which might aid them (because that might mean taking money from rich people), creating an intractable underclass which will only continue to grow?
Having a child in a poor position is punishment enough, and even a mother who loves and cares for her child while working multiple jobs will struggle to get by if she is solo. Why do people with wealth take glee in stripping her chances to improve her family's lot in life?
Costs for healthcare, education, and other necessities have skyrocketed, and that holds even if you take inflation into account. For all the pseudo-meritocratic implications of the words of the right, they are dead-set on eliminating the societal aids to social mobility that existed in years before. . For all their hatred of the poor, it seems like all they want to do is produce more of them.
"If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered" --Proverbs 21:13
There is a lot more where that came from. The sad part is that some of these people go to church every Sunday and claim to be people of faith but are incapable of showing the least bit of compassion or understanding to anyone unlike themselves.
"If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."
-Deuteronomy 15:7, 11
"Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns." -Deuteronomy 24:14
"Blessed is he who has regard for the weak; the LORD delivers him in times of trouble. The LORD will protect him and preserve his life; he will bless him in the land and not surrender him to the desire of his foes."
-Psalm 41:1-2
"He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God."
-Proverbs 14:31
"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."
-Proverbs 31:8-9
"Learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow."
-Isaiah 1:17
Okay, I got carried away but God doesn't like ugly and there are sooo many people behaving that way and glorifying it these days.
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