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Seems like wishful thinking by clueless conservatives. The reality is the CONSERVATIVES are being pushed out and on the run. It's difficult for you Pubs to go through life pretending as if there aren't an extraordinary high number of talented, exceptional, educated, and successful black people in this country who are thriving in spite of your continued efforts to force the opposite effect.
The alternative that you represent, segregation by race and/or class, is the one of the reasons why your party is now in a free fall.
Conservatives may be a minority in NYC, but they are not in the U.S.
Indeed, they are the largest ideological group in the U.S.
Moderates come in second, while Liberals are in a very distant third.
The author of the article did switch between the terms "black" and "african american" but he didn't make it clear whether he was singling out Caribbeans or singling out "Native" African Americans.
Oftentimes, "African American" is used as a general politically correct term for anyone black in professional or academic contexts and settings.
Which is why the article and half of this discussion is nonsense. People are making reference to the "black American" experience as if at has something to do with half of the people that they would label "black" in NYC.
Why does it even matter what heritage a black person has?
Haitians and "West Indians" who are American citizens are Black Americans.
Most black people in the NYC metro area have Caribbean roots. The groups obviously blend very easily. In fact, both my parents are from the Caribbean.
That's a matter of opinion. Plenty would describe themselves as West Indian-Americans rather than Black Americans because for the most part, the term Black American does not describe their heritage ans culture. It's good that the groups blend easily but that does not make them the same. Again, why the article is very narrow in its understanding of integration...
This thread is entitled "Signs of Things to Come: Integration without Blacks in New York City neighborhoods".
Meaning that the OP was only concerned with race and not specific heritages. So by the poster (that I responded to with those posts) highlighting the differences between any intra-racial subgroups was irrelevant to this thread and article.
This thread is entitled "Signs of Things to Come: Integration without Blacks in New York City neighborhoods".
Meaning that the OP was only concerned with race and not specific heritages. So by the poster (that I responded to with those posts) highlighting the differences between any intra-racial subgroups was irrelevant to this thread and article.
The article is not only concerned with race, as Hispanics are not a race. So if one can include Hispanics, so it is very much appropriate to include other groups in order to show its narrow perspective.
Seems like wishful thinking by clueless conservatives. The reality is the CONSERVATIVES are being pushed out and on the run. It's difficult for you Pubs to go through life pretending as if there aren't an extraordinary high number of talented, exceptional, educated, and successful black people in this country who are thriving in spite of your continued efforts to force the opposite effect.
The alternative that you represent, segregation by race and/or class, is the one of the reasons why your party is now in a free fall.
Which Conservatives want segregation? Who pretends there isn't a huge pool of normal, educated, articulate Black people? Since I'm not a "Conservative" I can't speak for them, but I think it's safe to say their beef is that there aren't more successful Black people. Be careful though because once Black people get awesome jobs, make real money, move to the suburbs, etc. They often become Conservatives. Nothing infuriates the left more than successful minorities who don't tow the Democratic party line.
Which Conservatives want segregation? Who pretends there isn't a huge pool of normal, educated, articulate Black people? Since I'm not a "Conservative" I can't speak for them, but I think it's safe to say their beef is that there aren't more successful Black people. Be careful though because once Black people get awesome jobs, make real money, move to the suburbs, etc. They often become Conservatives. Nothing infuriates the left more than successful minorities who don't tow the Democratic party line.
Most conservatives are furiously against diversity.
Chances are that if you see a post with 'diversity' or an ethnicity being bashed then liberals are being bashed right alongside with them.
Most conservatives are furiously against diversity.
Chances are that if you see a post with 'diversity' or an ethnicity being bashed then liberals are being bashed right alongside with them.
I disagree. I think much of this is concocted in the imaginations of Progressives. I see Conservatives as being biased against poor minority's, not minority's. They seem just fine with Dr Benjamin Carson, Herman Cain, Condoleezza Rice, Allan West, Colon Powel, Alberto Gonzalez, Marco Rubio, et al.
The new HUD rules will change that though. HUD's new goal is to integrate and they are going to tell cities which areas are not integrated enough.
Maybe Uncle Sam does see this happening and trying to change it through social engineering and government mandates.
When you dangle that Fed dollar you can attach strings. Details are just starting to come out on this.
Wanted to point out that the bold is completely untrue. I work in the housing industry for an organization backed by HUD. Even your article states that this new initiative is basically a technological tool for states to view the economic and racial make up of communities. It is not a plan to push anyone to integrate or tell people where they should live, which is what I have seen so many commenters try to say that it is.
This tool is based upon resources that many states already use such as GIS mapping. It is currently used as an aid for development and re-development of urban areas. Unfortunately, many rural and smaller cities do not have this technology available to them and HUD is proposing to have it available to all states so that they can use them as they see fit to redevelop sites, especially those owned by housing authorities. There is a trend to get rid of public housing as we know it (basically demolishing the projects) and to make multi-use, socioeconomically diverse redevelopments. That is what the HUD proposal is about. It has nothing to do with forced integration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshim
Being a black NYer myself, from what I've seen it appears that few blacks have any desire to "integrate" into mainstream white neighborhoods, unlike Asians.
I honestly think Hispanic is far too broad of a term as well. Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans tend to have different perspectives on what neighborhoods that they want to live in compared to other Hispanic groups.
But I personally NEVER hear any of my back friends wanting to move into Soho, the West Village, Williamsburg or any of these other gentrified "trendy" areas. Most blacks are happy in "black neighborhoods" from what I can see. I honestly don't see where there is any institutional racism played out on here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshim
I was thinking the same thing. All of my black friends live anywhere from Canarsie, Crown Heights, Bed-Stuy,Brownsville/ENY (Brooklyn) to Rosedale, Hollis, and Jamaica Queens-which are all pretty much "black neighborhoods." I have a few in the Bronx, and North Shore Staten Island as well....and I have never heard one express any desire to move into the Upper West Side, Mid-town, downtown, Riverdale (Bronx) Maspeth, Bensonhurst etc (Brooklyn) any part of South Shore Staten Island or places like Astoria in Queens which are some of the "monied elite" and middle/lower class white neighborhoods.
Black folks only seem to raise their voices when they are being priced out of their own neighborhoods. But otherwise, I never hear black folks marching and protesting to be allowed into white areas.
For some odd reason, whenever whites see a lack of interest in their neighborhoods by blacks...somehow they think they [blacks] must be deprived in some way.
ITA with the poster above, especially the bolded and most especially the red sections.
Many black people have no desire to move to neighborhoods where white people live. Black people generally are comfortable being around black people and living around black people. Contrary to what many believe, most black people have no desire to live around whites, Hispanics, Asians, etc. and don't seek that out. I know I don't and it is not because of a disdain for diversity, but it is about economics for me. Black neighborhoods are cheaper usually, probably not that much cheaper in NYC, but on the whole they are less expensive than a white neighborhood and I would rather save money and be comfortable than be "house poor" just to live around some white people. Most of us blacks don't place a premium on having white neighbors. Unlike liberal whites, we are not really concerned with living around different people. I believe that a lot of Asians, moreso than Hispanics, think that it is a status symbol to live in a white, hip neighborhood. Black people do not and I really don't think many Hispanics do either as there are many Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dominican, Cuban, and other latino neighborhoods around the country. Once white people move to these areas, they are usually priced out, similar to many black people in regards to gentrification.
I live in a poor black neighborhood now and there has been a push to gentrify in our area and many of our residents are afraid they will be priced out. They would rather stay in the black neighborhood versus moving to a hip white neighborhood.
Personally, I don't see "hip" neighborhoods as all that great. Shopping and eating establishments just don't cut it for me, which it seems that many on CD forums see as proof of gentrification - mostly coffeehouses it seems. The potential gentrifiers also decry what they see as a "lack of amenities" in regards to shopping, yet if one isn't afraid to look around they will see many amenities in black neighborhoods that black people like to patronize. One neighborhood that comes to mind is West End here in Atlanta. I have seen the neighborhood described as "not truly gentrified" due to having a lack of amenities even though there are many eating establishments and other shopping outlets in the area, but those places don't appeal to the gentrifiers. They want to see a starbucks, not Q-Time's Soul Food restaurant. They want to see a Trader Joes or Whole Foods instead of Kroger. Many black people are satisfied with their neighborhoods and I for one, don't like all the traffic that comes with white people here in metro Atlanta.
I will also note that a lot of black native New Yorkers have moved to Atlanta and most of them move to black neighborhoods here as well, either in Atlanta proper or to suburbs that are mostly black.
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