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The second amendment guarantees all the others. Without an armed population, the government can have carte-blanche to do as it pleases.
The Rights stated by the framers are in order.
The 1st is there because with out that there is no Freedom at all, so there it is.
the 2nd is there to back that up because even then evil existed in the world. The 2nd make the individual stronger which makes the state stringer and that makes the Govt stronger, so long as the govt represents the people.
Then the 2nd backs up every thing else coming after it. There us no sense making up rule of law that can't be backed up and enforced which is typical of the gun grabbers, and WHY we have today's current problems.
The sicko left and it's little pretenders think they can enforce paper tiger law, and sick illogical behaviors just by saying so.
But past history has shown what happens to people, govt's, and nations that pretend too much.
Just look at the grabbers here on CD who think the 2nd is gone! That must be a great feeling to PRETEND. The reality is going to sting.
I must have lost that list of obligations that was handed to me when I was born.
I should be able to do what I want, when I want and where I want as long as it has no impact on another's life, liberty or property. In 2nd Amendment terms, that means I should be able to own anything from a .22 Derringer to a General Electric mini-gun to a Howitzer. Who defines "reasonable"?
What BUU and I were referring to was the thread's premise that "the 2nd amendment was placed there to protect the people from a tyrannical government," which it was not.
Those that claim that are flying in the face of what the founders intended, namely, a republic with democratic principles. Under those principles, we elect leaders and if those leaders commit high crimes and misdemeanors we remove them from office peaceably. The Constitution has no sanction for violently overthrowing the elected government by a fringe group who decides for themselves that the government is tyrannical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Muz
The Rights stated by the framers are in order.
The Amendments are not in list of importance order.
The people of Egypt, Syria, Libya among other nations have risen up in arms against their tyrannical governments.
We have supplied the "rebels" with weapons that help them fight their government forces.
Gun grabbers have no concept of this.
"It can't happen here", right?
The 2nd amendment does not give you a ability to commit treason against the United States of America. No uprising in US history against the United States has ever attempted to claim 2nd amendment protection.
You try a uprising yourself, and you will see what good the 2nd amendment does against the Constitution itself which makes it clear what we think of treason against the united states.
Th is is the STUPIDIest excuse for guns, next to self defense. . .
What BUU and I were referring to was the thread's premise that "the 2nd amendment was placed there to protect the people from a tyrannical government," which it was not.
Those that claim that are flying in the face of what the founders intended, namely, a republic with democratic principles. Under those principles, we elect leaders and if those leaders commit high crimes and misdemeanors we remove them from office peaceably. The Constitution has no sanction for violently overthrowing the elected government by a fringe group who decides for themselves that the government is tyrannical.The Amendments are not in list of importance order.
[SIZE=-1]To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it. Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion, that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession, than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors. Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it. [/SIZE]
For 55 years gun owners gave in and made compromise. No more.....
Racist slave-owners "gave in and made compromise" for about a hundred years, before the commitment to be honorable and socially conscious regarding their bigotry was fully codified, and even fifty years later the work toward progress still goes on. The point of this analogy is that just because someone successfully resists the honorable and moral charges laid against what they support once or twice doesn't mean those promoting progress are going to go away and leave the reactionaries to continue to block righteous change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech
The Constitution has no sanction for violently overthrowing the elected government by a fringe group who decides for themselves that the government is tyrannical.
Precisely. This is a nation of laws, with a Constitution that outlines the manner in which people of different views work together to forge a path that is a reflection of all their views, not what right-wingers are trying to envision, i.e., a death-match where the ones that dominate the figurative killing field get to subjugate those more vulnerable in society to the dominators' will. This is a society, not a deliberately vicious circus. This is civilization, not anarchy.
Racist slave-owners "gave in and made compromise" for about a hundred years, before the commitment to be honorable and socially conscious regarding their bigotry was fully codified, and even fifty years later the work toward progress still goes on. The point of this analogy is that just because someone successfully resists the honorable and moral charges laid against what they support once or twice doesn't mean those promoting progress are going to go away and leave the reactionaries to continue to block righteous change.
Owning another violates their right of liberty. Owning a gun doesn't violate anyone else's rights.
Using that gun against another can violate someone's rights but we should do absolutely nothing until such action takes place.
Sorry but we cant overthrow the US government with muskets and cannons.
I could see a military coup possibly, but there is absolutely zero percent likelihood that a citizen-led militia rebellion against the US government/military will occur.
Sorry but we cant overthrow the US government with muskets and cannons.
I could see a military coup possibly, but there is absolutely zero percent likelihood that a citizen-led militia rebellion against the US government/military will occur.
Sorry but we cant overthrow the US government with muskets and cannons.
I could see a military coup possibly, but there is absolutely zero percent likelihood that a citizen-led militia rebellion against the US government/military will occur.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
I'd put it at .0001% but I like having options.
What option?
This thread is the idea that the Constitution gives you the right to commit treason against the united states and rebel for an overthrow. It does not.
If Obama got Congress to amend the Constitution making him emperor for life, and the ability to overrule the supreme court and the congress. . .
you could rebel, sure. .but such action would not be LEGAL under the articles of treason. Instead, dictator obama (per the above scenario) would be legal
If you decide to rebel against the United States Govt, what the f' anymore do you have to care about whats legal or not legal within its Constitution. Your kicking it aside, thats the POINT of rebelling
Owning another violates their right of liberty. Owning a gun doesn't violate anyone else's rights.
Using that gun against another can violate someone's rights but we should do absolutely nothing until such action takes place.
Owing a gun does not take your liberty. . .nor does the govt taking your guns violate your liberty. A possession is not linked to your liberty in any meaningful way (based on the western world). Govt across the world who promote personal liberty often ban various possessions: Guns, Child Pornography, meth, cocaine.
the idea that your liberty to own a possession supersedes my desire to be safe is .. .arrogant, at the very least.
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