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Old 03-03-2014, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Earth
2,549 posts, read 3,980,535 times
Reputation: 1218

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
How do you, personally know so much? Wouldn't all the information you are putting out about US intentions be highly classified? Arn't you afraid that the Secret Service will arrest you for disclosing all our state secrets concerning our future intentions? When are these strategy meetings that you get to sit in on. I'd like to come.

Or is your depiction of US intentions so much fantasy, that just exist in that 6" of airspace between your ears?
It's no secret. It's already common knowledge based on our past response to places like Georgia and Syria. We did nothing. Ukraine so far we did nothing. It factual reality of what's happened to so far. Red lines in the sand fantasies mean nothing when they aren't backed up. It's like when you ask a girl out and set a time and place to meet you have a pattern of not showing up time and time again. How can you expect her to believe you when you have a habit of not making good on your word? As a result she will not take you serious.

 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,077 posts, read 51,224,761 times
Reputation: 28322
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
McCain was on a plane and over in Kiev shaking hands with the new coup leaders.
He called the COUP an "incredible display of patriotism".

This is what the US stands for now.
It is people like McCain that make people like Putin do dumb things like invading Crimea.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:05 PM
 
Location: KKKalfornia
493 posts, read 783,141 times
Reputation: 277
"What should our government do?" would have been a good question to ask BEFORE we joined in with the EU in destabilizing the Ukraine and aiding a violent mob. The Community Organizer crossed the line of involvment with no idea what the actual consequence would be, it should be no surprise that hes being mocked, and in turn has his own "red-line" laughed at hysterically.

Putin is simply responding how i would expect a leader to respond. He has military bases in Crimea, hes protecting his bases in Crimea. There are many russian citizens in the eastern half of the ukraine who are on the wrong side of a violent anti-russian mob, hes there to protect his citizens.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:06 PM
 
Location: KKKalfornia
493 posts, read 783,141 times
Reputation: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Putin is playing chess.
And obama is playing checkers.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:07 PM
 
Location: DFW
40,952 posts, read 49,183,047 times
Reputation: 55008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TempusFugitive View Post
The real question, if they get away with this, is what China will do if it senses weakness in the United States.
Japan better start building their Military.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:07 PM
 
9,240 posts, read 8,667,069 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Perhaps. But he is gambling with other people's money. Russian oligarchs would pay a very high price for cutting off the gas. If the objective is to be certain that the Russian base remains viable in a pro-Western Urkraine, there are far less risky ways to go about it. If the objective is Russian domination of Ukraine and a new "iron curtain" that is just economic suicide for Russia's billionaire's including Putin. Ain't gonna happen.
Thats what Obama said.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Earth
2,549 posts, read 3,980,535 times
Reputation: 1218
Obama says to Ukraine if you like your country you can keep it.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Allendale MI
2,523 posts, read 2,203,114 times
Reputation: 698
Russia isn't dumb enough to invade the rest of Ukraine.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,561 posts, read 10,355,232 times
Reputation: 8252
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanologist View Post
China is building there military knowing we want to cut ours so I wouldn't be surprised if China moves into Taiwan. We won't do anything just as we won't with Ukraine.
Though small, Taiwan isn't exactly defenseless. They're armed to the teeth, they have universal military service for all male citizens. And they spend quite a bit of $$ on defense equipment.

The US does have the provision in the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act providing for assistance to Taiwan in terms of defence, but it's deliberately kept vague to 1) keep Beijing off balance and 2) not encourage Taipei to needlessly provoke Beijing.

Besides, there's a lot of cross-strait commerce these days that will tend to discourage the prospects of military action for now.
 
Old 03-03-2014, 12:10 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,449,172 times
Reputation: 14266
I'll lead by example.

Putin has been pretty clever on this; he knows that not only is the USA war-weary after a decade in the Middle East, but he primarily knows that we need Russia's role in managing Iran and Syria; maybe China one day, too. It's a nice ruthless tactic of the Russians to not-so-secretly back rogue states like Syria and then insert themselves as the critical mediators for negotiated Western interests. Makes for good bargaining chips.

But the real reason that Putin is going into Crimea is strategic. That spot of land has his only naval base with access to the Mediterranean. He sees the EU as a genuine threat and can't afford to let those strategic assets be dismantled by a pro-Western Ukrainian government. It also suggests that he probably doesn't want to march into all of the Ukraine; just wants to keep that base at all costs and otherwise destabilize the pro-Western government through standard political / economic means. He's ruthless, but I don't think he's as maniacal as a Hitler.

Obama doesn't need to do some Clint Eastwood "last stand" military attack over Crimea. The way to hit back on this is to look at the things Russia will want two or three steps down the road and set up obstacles now. There is a lot that can and will be done to ostracize Russia from the international community, and it will cost them dearly - especially if we can exploit any kind of a rift between Russia and China and get the Chinese to back sanctions, etc. This may set Russia back a generation or two in terms of relations with the rest of the First World.

And furthermore, the West and EU should now make good on threats to build out military capabilities in Western Europe, including the missile defense shield.

It is rational as to why Russia wants to hold onto Crimea so badly. Maybe there is a way to negotiate safe access for the Russians to their military assets in that region, much like agreements we have with other countries. But given that this is the opening salvo in a new round of West / East conflict, I would make sure he pays a high price for it...and set up the roadblocks now that make it very clear that the next move will result in military counterattack. It will be back to the days of the Cold War standoff, but there's nothing that can be done about that.
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