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So to you people who want to use drugs are far safer purchasing them out of sight and out of mind in the underground drug market from thugs and gang members? Like who knows how crazy and dangerous the world would be, if pot was legal and pot leaf logos started appearing in store windows?
Legalizing isn't going to stop this as we are not legalizing it to stop it. Where legalized it's being legalized to bring in the most amount of money for the state as possible. In this scenario the state is simply a competitor to the underground market.
Marijuana black market still thrives in Colorado, where pot is legal
If you want to get rid of the criminal element you have to price them out of the market. We are actually making it easier for them to operate. At the prices the state is charging there is still a lot of profit for the underground market and the risk becomes far lower.
I have no idea what the actual numbers will be but if they got $250 an ounce before but lost 40% to confiscation to the police and now can get $175 but only lose 10% they aren't going to be crying.
Marijuana users are safer drivers than non-marijuana users. Sorry to bust your bubble.
Stoner Logic 101.
Is there really any wonder why nobody takes them seriously?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW
Drugs should be legalized simply because keeping them illegal has failed miserably and completely. Anyone can get anything they want, as long as they can pay the price (and the price, especially for street drugs like Heroin had gotten pretty cheap.)
Last time I checked, human trafficking were thriving business as well, despite being 100% illegal. Are you saying that slavery should be legalized as well because "anyone can get anything they want, as long as they can pay the price"?
I personally believe marijuana possession should be decriminalized, but you'll never see me get on board with wide-open legalization of hard drugs. Harlem's heroin heydays of the 60's and 70's were not all smiles and sunshine despite the history revisionism being portrayed in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
I simply believe in liberty. This includes the liberty to screw one's life up. It should be your choice alone. Besides, having drugs illegal isn't stopping anyone from using them who really wants to. It's simply turning the control over to organized crime rings.
I really don't see how legalization will ever put organized crime out of business unless the government plans to hand out these drugs for free. Why should some worthless junkie be eligible for free cocaine and heroin so he spend his useless life getting high when the rest of us have to pay for prescriptions that actually keep us healthy? I'd much rather see marijuana decriminalized, hard drug users sentenced to mandatory military service and the traffickers immediately executed upon summary conviction. It would certainly save more money than putting them into already overcrowded prisons and the crime rate might even drop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp
If you want to get rid of the criminal element you have to price them out of the market. We are actually making it easier for them to operate. At the prices the state is charging there is still a lot of profit for the underground market and the risk becomes far lower.
This shouldn't be news to anyone with an IQ larger than their shoe size.
3 months in and we can declare legalization a complete failure because people are still doing a legal activity in an illegal manner.
Brilliant.
It is only going to be a matter of time until the so-called 'War on Drugs' morphs into an all-new 'War on Tax Evasion' so the state can attempt to recoup its losses to the ongoing illicit (i.e. "untaxed") drug trade.
At that point, we can indeed call it an epic failure. It's only a matter of time.
Tens of thousands of innocent people died as a result of gang wars during Prohibition. Many more have died as a result of the "War on Drugs", begun in the 1970's by Nixon.
For those who support Drug Prohibition, Have you looked at the statistics? What is your goal, anyways? To minimize the number of deaths?
Here are some undisputed facts:
Most people who try such drugs such as heroin, cocaine, etc., do not get addicted. A very small percentage become addicts.
Of the people who die as a result of drugs use, most die as a result of AIDS or overdose, both of which are, arguably, a result of the illegal ingestion method itself, rather than the intrinsic nature of the drug itself.
So-called "Psychedelic" drugs such as LSD, Peyote, Psilocybin (mushrooms), are physically harmless, Many even have long-term positive cognitive effects.
Legalization suggests agreement with the use of drugs. Children and teens are very astute about the legalization issue and often use this as their reason for early use/ abuse. I understand your premise of allowing people to make their own decision and the possible lessening of substance use with legalization ( I.E.-Prohibition) but the effect on our young people is important to consider. We as parents and "village members" no longer do our part with protective factors for our youth, so the government has taken over that role. Like it or not, I do not see a total elimination of laws against drugs.
I also think your statistics are incorrect. Early use of drugs have been documents to lead to psychotic symptoms in adulthood. Long term use of marijuana can lead to use of stronger drugs because of the tolerance issue. Larger quantity of drugs/more intense to obtain the same high. Your assertion of who dies from drugs is false. You need to review the SAMSHA data for clarity.
Buying heroin and meth on the street is not expensive but you have no idea what's really in it. If it was regulated it could be more controlled and you wouldn't have to buy it on the street. So these dealers would be out of business. We provide nicotine to addicts...many who die all the time because of health issues related to it. What's the difference.
What is really in meth and heroin is meth and heroin.
As for the difference between street drugs and tobacco, since I also don't support the legalization of tobacco, it seems there is very little difference.
Legalization suggests agreement with the use of drugs. Children and teens are very astute about the legalization issue and often use this as their reason for early use/ abuse. I understand your premise of allowing people to make their own decision and the possible lessening of substance use with legalization ( I.E.-Prohibition) but the effect on our young people is important to consider. We as parents and "village members" no longer do our part with protective factors for our youth, so the government has taken over that role. Like it or not, I do not see a total elimination of laws against drugs.
I also think your statistics are incorrect. Early use of drugs have been documents to lead to psychotic symptoms in adulthood. Long term use of marijuana can lead to use of stronger drugs because of the tolerance issue. Larger quantity of drugs/more intense to obtain the same high. Your assertion of who dies from drugs is false. You need to review the SAMSHA data for clarity.
Oh the children, oh the children!!! There got that off my chest, you prohibitionists always complain about the children, like we should live in some infantocracy..(new word meaning a government run as if we are all 6 years old).
I guess in your view we must protect them from "drugs", but not caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, prescription opiates, etc.... What we've done with the so called War on Drugs is to make it very easy for a 13 year old to get almost any drug they want, but make it nearly impossible for legitimate researchers to acquire it.
Let's look at your whole post.
Legalization does not "suggest" agreement with the use of...fill in the blank. It's a poor argument. If heroin is legalized on Monday are you going to start using it because legalization "suggests" it's ok? What legalization does is let those that need treatment get it without fear of incarceration and leaves other people alone. It also could redirect the money from criminals to the government.
If children and teens are so astute as you say, why is it that many of them do not even know where Washington DC is? They don't base decisions on laws like they were little lawyers. We do know that the part of their brain concerned with realizing consequences is still under developed into their teens. They, like most of us, are not very informed much beyond what affects their own small world, In the real world kids make decisions based on their parents and their peers.
Prohibitionists like to equate use with abuse. In reality very few users of marijuana or other drugs abuse them. Marijuana is only mildly addictive, about a third less than caffeine.
Since laws have made drug use illegal for minors for a long time, and will continue to do so in states that legalize, we already know what the effect of laws are on restricting youth activity, not very effective. Laws make them afraid to get help if they need it. It is well known that the legal ramifications of drug use are often far worse than the actual use.
The government has NOT taken over raising your kids, sorry, you are still responsible for that.
No responsible reformer advocates early use of drugs, There is as yet no definitive CAUSAL link between early use of drugs leading to psychotic symptoms in adulthood. If there were we should see a big increase in mental health disease, but in fact, the rates of mental health disease have remained virtually unchanged since the 1950's.
The gateway theory, is exactly that, a theory, which has been disproven a number of times, but low information prohibitionists still repeat it often. There is no "tolerance issue" with marijuana. There is a point that you can not get any higher, no matter how much more you use. Some users will stop periodically (yes, they can do that because it is not physically a problem to stop) in order to "improve their high" but that is it. If the gateway theory were true, then you would expect to see many more cocaine and heroin users because marijuana is the most popular drug by a big margin.
Tens of thousands of innocent people died as a result of gang wars during Prohibition. Many more have died as a result of the "War on Drugs", begun in the 1970's by Nixon.
For those who support Drug Prohibition, Have you looked at the statistics? What is your goal, anyways? To minimize the number of deaths?
Here are some undisputed facts:
Most people who try such drugs such as heroin, cocaine, etc., do not get addicted. A very small percentage become addicts.
Of the people who die as a result of drugs use, most die as a result of AIDS or overdose, both of which are, arguably, a result of the illegal ingestion method itself, rather than the intrinsic nature of the drug itself.
So-called "Psychedelic" drugs such as LSD, Peyote, Psilocybin (mushrooms), are physically harmless, Many even have long-term positive cognitive effects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
Undisputed facts?
That's a hoot!
So your plan is to make currently expensive and illegal street drugs so affordable and readily available that drug dealers won't have an incentive to sell them?
OK, I'll play along.
How does providing an addict all the cocaine or heroine they want result in fewer drug overdoses?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jburress
You have no clue what you are talking about.
People get hooked on RX drugs and turn to illegal drugs because they are much cheaper.
Bags of heroin in Philadelphia sell for 3 to 5 dollars, versus 25 to 60 dollars for a single oxycontin pill.
People get hooked, then turn to heroin when they can't afford the oxycontin.
Oxycotin users switch to heroin when their doctor(s) realizes their prescription drugs created an addict and cuts them off.
How will legalizing heroin result in fewer heroin overdoses?
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teens can be hurt
This is a COMPLETELY UNINFORMED post
