It's Over, Walker Won: Wisconsin Supreme Court Upholds Law Ending Collective Bargaining for Public Workers (suspected, how much)

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by earthlyfather

Geography is not your strong suit, I see. Unless OFA has moved the state boundaries to protect Mr Obama, East St Louis is still in Illinois. Let me capitalize that, I L L I N O I S.

Its not Geography, its name recognition.

I Assumed East St. Louis would be in the same state as St, Louis.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by OICU812

The corrupt, corporatists from both political parties in Alaska state government hated Palin, she broke up the corrupt good 'ol boy network in the state, you should at least credit her with doing that much.

I doubt she did that, but the point o my post was that It wasnt "the Left", that went after her in Alaska. At least not entirely.

[GeneR]

Originally Posted by MaseMan

You union bashers can have your day now...some of us here in Wisconsin aren't relishing the idea of being turned into a carbon copy of states like Indiana or Mississippi, though.

Or Texas?

[LoveToRow]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

Its not Geography, its name recognition.

I Assumed East St. Louis would be in the same state as St, Louis.

You make a lot of assumptions and should probably stop doing that. Your assumptions are very often wrong.

[MaseMan]

Originally Posted by GeneR

Or Texas?

Texas is another "taker state". Some of us don't want to see Wisconsin turned into that.

[FatBob96]

Originally Posted by MaseMan

They already have been. Union membership nationwide is only about 10% of the current workforce. Some of the neo-cons are railing against a boogeyman who no longer exists.

You don't have to be an neo-con to have a disdain for unions.
You just have to be someone who works for a living.
Union members are the laziest bunch of whining "that's-not-my-job" crybaby slackers I've ever seen.
If I has the same attitude where I work as most of the union members I've had to work along side of over the years, I'd be fired in a heartbeat.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by MaseMan

FWIW, this wasn't a surprise at all. Everyone knew the law was going to be upheld. Meanwhile, Act 10 hasn't actually fixed anything...Wisconsin's economy still lags behind its neighbors, teachers are shunning Wisconsin for other states, our schools are not magically fixed and better for ending collective bargaining, and Mary Burke has caught up to Gov. Walker in the polls (I still expect Walker to win re-election, though). You union bashers can have your day now...some of us here in Wisconsin aren't relishing the idea of being turned into a carbon copy of states like Indiana or Mississippi, though.

I fully support private unions and to some extent public unions.

However, you cannot possibly live in Wisconsin and be blind to the calamity befalling your neighbor to the south and their public unions and their pension fund?

Also, the outrage that allowed Walker to get into office (and stay there) in the first place was driven by the fact that the PRIVATE workers in Wisconsin have had some hard times with their benefits, pay and employment and were angry that the PUBLIC workers weren't feeling the same pinch as they were.

This is especially the case seeing as how Wisconsin has pretty much the highest total tax burden outside the east and west coast.

Lastly, Walker didn't do anything that Rahm Emanuel hasn't tried to combat in Chicago in terms of entrenched public unions that in turn reward the politicians in an giant back-scratch circle at taxpayer expense.

The changes in WI weren't supposed to "fix schools" or "fix the economy" but rather give the beast a haircut so that they act a little more efficiently and tighten their belts just like everyone else has had to.

Either that or you can just spend your way into the ground like Illinois has and then watch your entire public pension fund teeter on the brink.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Dooleys1300

You don't have to be an neo-con to have a disdain for unions.

Neo-cons support unions, but thanks for the disinformation just the same. Maybe you should get with the other and try to learn something.

Originally Posted by MaseMan

Texas is another "taker state". Some of us don't want to see Wisconsin turned into that.

I seriously doubt US Army III Corps will be moving to Wisconsin anytime soon.

Originally Posted by dsjj251

Its not Geography, its name recognition.

I Assumed East St. Louis would be in the same state as St, Louis.

Um, it's geography.

You probably think East Chicago is in Illinois.

Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas

I believe those supporting the killing off of public unions should have their name and address supplied to all police and fire stations in the state, that way when first responders respond to calls for help from the same people that attacked them they can be assisted in the best way the emergency responders deem fit.

Scare Tactic

If you suppose that terrorizing your opponent is giving him a reason for believing that you are correct, then you are using a scare tactic and reasoning fallaciously.

Suppressed Evidence

Intentionally failing to use information suspected of being relevant and significant is committing the fallacy of suppressed evidence. This fallacy usually occurs when the information counts against one’s own conclusion.

If unions never existed, police and fire would still exist.

What exactly is my union benefit?

A bad cop who causes my community to lose $1,000s or $Millions each year due to crime?

A bad cop who gets 6 months suspended with pay while a "cover-up" (a Polish word pronounced "investigation") takes place, only to be reinstated?

Originally Posted by MaseMan

Unions are the only bulwark for the common worker against outright corporate exploitation and extortion.

Equivocation

Equivocation is the illegitimate switching of the meaning of a term during the reasoning.

Public employees were exploited and extorted?

I'm sure it must have been extremely difficult surviving federal holidays and sitting in offices drinking coffee all day riding a pension guaranteed by the tax-payers.

Only 3% of business in the US are publicly traded corporations.

It would seem some people are freaking obsessed.

Originally Posted by chuckmann

Neither do I. However, the purpose of unions is collective bargaining and defense of members against violations of work rules and disciplinary processes.

And they were created during a unique period in history, and at a time when no other viable alternatives existed.

It's a prime example of how rapid change can be devastating, and how government and society is often to slow to catch up to these changes, in part because both government and society often resist them out of fear of the unknown.

Originally Posted by SourD

2 words for you.. PUBLIC UNIONS! You are citing stats for PRIVATE UNIONS! Do you know the difference? EVERY single state's public workers are unionized.

Good job....for them it doesn't matter.....the ends always justify the means and using fallacies and scare tactics are just part of the means.

Collectively....

Mircea

[Casper in Dallas]

Originally Posted by alphamale

All of you lefties can stop complaining now.

It's the law!

"Elections have consequences!"

Yes, they do, tell that to the first responders that stop to eat lunch as your house burns and people loot what is left of your belongings

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by MaseMan

Texas is another "taker state". Some of us don't want to see Wisconsin turned into that.

Dear god, please don't tell me you are referring to that "red state vs blue state" analysis performed by political hacks with no grasp of economics or statistics?