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Why...
Why do you villify a person who is disciplined enough to address life issues effectively through healthy non invasive methods? ...because of your weakness ...not you personally... but mj users as a whole... because of your sickness... because of your infirmity.. because of your lack of discipline ... because you want to feel good ... no.. demand to feel good at the expense of others...
Now that my friends is true sickness
Through this whole thread anyone who wasn't pro pot was insulted and shouted down... which is absolutely the face of pot today. Americans are polling to make mj legal at just over 55 percent if you believe the polls... but AFTER they experience mj behavior in their own communities then they don't like it
I don't see any short term national legalization coming ..I do see more relaxed standards and laws in the states. The whining about leave us alone you are ruining potheads lives is false... users don't get arrested.. as a matter of fact California is emptying its prisons of drug offenders... and while the social libritarians love this it creates huge quality of life issues for local communities...
Through this thread we see the continued demanding nature of people who want drugs ...at the expense of others... whether its murders in the countries to the south... and here as well ... to the destruction of life in our communities.
I'm happy to listen to people who use drugs and try to help them ...for as a group they are defective individuals that do need guidance for their failings in life... the people who could benefit medically for pot.. pain reduction.. are a fairly small percentage ..
Pot WONT cure what ails many who use it... it is another narcotic to help people forget how to live.
There has been demonstrated in this this thread a huge disconnect for causal behavior... it would be impossible for rational people to connect their hedonistic behavior to the destruction of the life of another ... yet that is happening... now.. not tomorrow .. but now.. and the answers blathered out are..well it would be different if... misses the arrow completely
The premises of the articles I believe are true ... I havent seen anything provided so far to dispute them that leads to any other conclusions
From this thread pot proponents have demands of every right.. every privilege every perk.. without any compromise... the mark of true hedonists.
We are and will continue to pay a heavy price as a country for this thinking. Today I will interact with people whose focus is drug free positive living.. people who are forward focused at being positive members of society.. giving more than they take.. people who are training their minds for the challenges of the future. Thank god there are young people who DONT seek the easy way of anesthesia as a way of living
Who is dying for your pot today?... you are.. at the expense of the heartbeats of someone else
He has really gone off the deep end folks.
notmeofficer, you are so delusional that I so want to stop wasting my time on you, but sometimes you say something so egregious that I can't let it lie there. In other threads, on other subjects, you show intelligence, logic, and sound judgment. So I was hoping after enough tries, at least some of those qualities would emerge to at least start to overtake the bias and myopia you display about this subject. But not one iota of what the majority of posters have been trying to teach you has sunk in. Everything you read that does not seem to support your position goes in one eye and out the other.
But I will not stand by and take the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
I'm happy to listen to people who use drugs and try to help them ...for as a group they are defective individuals that do need guidance for their failings in life...
That is the most offensive thing you have ever written, and it proves you were lying earlier when you wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
while I don't condemn MJ folks as a whole
Obviously you do. Color me officially offended.
So here I am, sitting here offended, by someone who is the self-proclaimed expert who has admittedly has never even tried cannabis. Yet he is the one that can state absolute, complete, bald-face lies like these, while being 100% certain he is right:
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
Posters want to get high and think it actually increases their mental acuity ...
Can we agree this premise is false
Ha! Not even close! I have written literally hundreds of thousands of lines of computer code while using it. Otherwise the jobs would have been much harder, taken much longer, and resulted in a lower quality product. It helps me focus and concentrate, increases creativity, and in fact turns what would have been the drudgery of computer programming into a job that is actually fun. Put that in your pipe and smoke it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
THC remains in the body much longer than say alcohol for example ... remember they are both poisons.
Complete, utter crap. Please research "poison". THC does not fall into this category. More ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
can we support a plant that isn't required for life or nutrition that burns 6 gallons of h2o per day to grow it?
Complete, utter crap. Law enforcement and the legal system love to amp up everything they say. I just finished growing 3 plants, and all three together used 1 gallon per day, and that was during the most water intensive phase. For the majority of the time those 3 plants took less than 1 gallon per day for all three.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
but users using a drug that kills motivation
Complete, utter crap. Sure you can find strains that when combined with the user's particular body chemistry can kill motivation, but responsible, experienced users usually choose a strain that motivates them, not demotivates them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
As you toke up today someone is being murdered ..kidnapped.. raped.. and subjugated because of your desire to be high and want this benign drug
You are so delusional that you missed your calling. You should have lived a generation or two sooner so that you could have been a writer for the movie "Reefer Madness". Unbelievable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
since I dont use drugs at all I am interested in the perspective of one who does use them regularly
Hardly. You are not interested until you hear something you can interpret as negative so that you can use it in your propaganda. Everything you read that is positive gets completely ignored by you and other proponents of prohibition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
Cartel workers get kidnapped in Mexico.. have their families threatened... get blindfolded and end up in California 10 hours later in the middle of nowhere... they get told.. grow or die.. and your family dies.. grow and be successful and you'll get money... dont grow ..die...
Oh my my my. I swear this is still the 1930's. You're not even grasping at straws anymore, you are just grasping at thin air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
We are and will continue to pay a heavy price as a country
Yes, that part of your statement is correct, but it is because of PROHIBITION!
This is so sad. Here we have a law enforcement officer, with a badge, gun, and authority, who is a self-proclaimed expert on cannabis, out doing his job. It is so obvious to the majority of the posters here, and the majority of the general public, that he is completely wrong when it comes to almost EVERY detail about the plant, making it very, very scary.
I guess you think you're right about all aspects of cannabis, and it is all the rest of us that is wrong. Scary indeed.
You are ruining people's lives and livelihoods because of a plant you don't know the first thing about. I would be ashamed if it were me.
I am not going to fault you 100% though. I believe, since your digital communications are read by your cohorts and bosses, that you could not change your stance on this even if you wanted to. It would raise the ire of your coworkers and your boss, and might result in you losing your job or getting demoted.
Still, you are very scary though, and as much good as you do on all fronts except the war on drugs, and I hate to say this, but I believe we will be better off once you, and others with your closed mindset, are fully retired.
But until then, you and the other prohibitionists wants to see me in jail. That means what you want is:
My businesses closed.
My employees fired.
My customers left with no support.
My kids removed.
My taxes to stop being paid.
My company's taxes to stop being paid.
My record amended to show a felony conviction.
My future job or business prospects destroyed.
My life turned into a liability.
My exposure to real criminals in jail, so that maybe I can pick some of those habits up.
Not to mention all the downstream harm caused by the above actions.
There is not a single chance in hell that using cannabis could cause that much damage to my life. But yet, it is what you want to happen because somehow you think all of that is good.
Insanity.
Last edited by Vistaian; 04-16-2015 at 09:28 AM..
Reason: typo
Most countries fall in line with cannabis prohibition due to the Single Convention Treaty from 1961. To see the countries involved, as regulated by the UN, start at page 6. The USA started the ball rolling, a few have since bucked the system seeing its failure and others, still cling on because America still is, and America has to "lead by example". .. It's just politics. To see these obligations put in place, go to articles 4 and 5.
Having lived in Holland for 2 years, I can't say that there was every any bowing to US policy discussed, it was just that the Dutch take a far more pragmatic approach, realize they can't do anything to stop drug use, so they turn a blind eye to it TO A POINT. . .you can't posses over x amount, and if busted, you will face charges.
It's an unusual situation, but it has worked out very well for them.
The drug policy in the Netherlands aims: to reduce the demand for drugs, the supply of drugs and the risks to drug users, their immediate surroundings and society.
The Dutch recognize that it is impossible to prevent people from using drugs altogether. Coffee shops are therefore allowed to sell small amounts of soft drugs. This pragmatic approach means that authorities can actually focus on the big criminals who profit from drugs and who supply hard drugs.
Twofold approach
The Dutch do not see their tolerant policy towards limited soft drug use as some miraculous solution. They try to prevent the drug abuse through the educational measures, closely monitoring the scene of the drug abuse, fighting with the consequences of the abuse by the health measures such as the free testing of the ecstasy pills, the free syringe exchange program and the free methadone (surrogate of heroine) supply program for the heroine users. Today in 60 Dutch cities, hundreds of these programs operate on daily basis, deeply influencing life in the country. At the same time, Dutch authorities try to eliminate deadly illegal drugs by combating drug trafficking. Then again, through their tolerant policies towards soft drugs, they hope to be able to better control the social phenomena of drug abuse. For example, the statistical data certifies that among young people of medium age 28 in the Netherlands, only 16% ever smoked marijuana. Soft drugs when widely accessible seem to lose much of their appeal.
Also, from first hand experience, I never heard anyone complain about wanting it to be legal, because for all intents and purposes, it kind of is...though it's not, but when you can openly get it, consume it, and really REALLY have to screw up to get charged for it, it practically is.
"small countries don't like to do anything to offend the USA. In the case of The Netherlands, maintaining friendly relations with the US is the only reason why cannabis is still illegal there."
This link answers both of your questions (scroll down to "non-enforcement").
If you don't want to read it, I will include the relevant section here. I have bolded the key points you were asking about:
Quote:
This may refer to the Prohibition in the 1920s, when the U.S. government decided to ban all alcohol. Prohibition created a golden opportunity for organized crime syndicates to smuggle alcohol, and as a result the syndicates were able to gain considerable power in some major cities.
Cannabis remains a controlled substance in the Netherlands and both possession and production for personal use are still misdemeanors, punishable by fines. Coffee shops are also technically illegal but are flourishing nonetheless. However, a policy of non-enforcement has led to a situation where reliance upon non-enforcement has become common, and because of this the courts have ruled against the government when individual cases were prosecuted.
This is because the Dutch Ministry of Justice applies a gedoogbeleid (tolerance policy) with regard to the category "soft drugs": an official set of guidelines telling public prosecutors under which circumstances offenders should not be prosecuted. This is a more official version of a common practice in other European countries wherein law enforcement sets priorities regarding offenses on which it is important enough to spend limited resources.
According to current gedoogbeleid the possession of a maximum amount of five grams cannabis for personal use is not prosecuted. Cultivation is treated in a similar way. Cultivation of 5 plants or less is usually not prosecuted when they are renounced by the cultivator.
Proponents of gedoogbeleid argue that such a policy practices more consistency in legal protection than without it. Opponents of the Dutch drug policy either call for full legalization, or argue that laws should penalize morally wrong or deviant behavior, whether enforceable or not. In the Dutch courts, however, it has long been determined that the institutionalized non-enforcement of statutes with well defined limits constitutes de facto decriminalization. The statutes are kept on the books mainly due to international pressure and in adherence with international treaties.
A November 2008 poll showed that a 60% majority of the Dutch population support the legalisation of soft drugs. The same poll showed that 85% supported closing of all cannabis coffee shops within 250 meters walking distance from schools.
Hmmm. I see I missed one of your lies. There are so many of them it is easy to do.
Like I've told you before, you better stick with California. You are woefully ignorant of what is happening in other states.
Why don't you ask the people in jail in Oklahoma, and the people about to go to jail in Oklahoma, if users get arrested? There, not only are users arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (and indeed do prison time if you draw the wrong judge), but even something as little as one plant growing in your back yard will get the forfeiture procedure started to they can steal your house. I used to live there, I know. I've seen it personally.
In Kingfisher, OK., Patricia Marilyn Spottedcrow, a single mother of 4, got 12 YEARS for selling $31 worth to an informant. I suppose making that bust made the Kingfisher police department proud.
That wasn't just one judge's insanity either. After the sentence was appealed, another judge took a look at it and reduced it to... wait for it... ... 8 YEARS!
Her mother got 30 YEARS! But it was all suspended so she could stay home to take care of the kids.
Neither had any previous convictions.
This kind of draconian, cruel, and inhumane witch-burning HAPPENS SOMEWHERE EVERY DAY as long as this hideous drug war continues.
Hmmm. I see I missed one of your lies. There are so many of them it is easy to do.
Like I've told you before, you better stick with California. You are woefully ignorant of what is happening in other states.
Why don't you ask the people in jail in Oklahoma, and the people about to go to jail in Oklahoma, if users get arrested? There, not only are users arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (and indeed do prison time if you draw the wrong judge), but even something as little as one plant growing in your back yard will get the forfeiture procedure started to they can steal your house. I used to live there, I know. I've seen it personally.
In Kingfisher, OK., Patricia Marilyn Spottedcrow, a single mother of 4, got 12 YEARS for selling $31 worth to an informant. I suppose making that bust made the Kingfisher police department proud.
That wasn't just one judge's insanity either. After the sentence was appealed, another judge took a look at it and reduced it to... wait for it... ... 8 YEARS!
Her mother got 30 YEARS! But it was all suspended so she could stay home to take care of the kids.
Neither had any previous convictions.
This kind of draconian, cruel, and inhumane witch-burning HAPPENS SOMEWHERE EVERY DAY as long as this hideous drug war continues.
Okay, Vistain let's have a debate.
I will write in purple
As I was reading your stance, as I read on I felt like I was reading a research paper that was being thought up, made up as typed along.
If you would like to show the facts backing up your statements, that would be great. Such as,
"small countries don't like to do anything to offend the USA. In the case of The Netherlands, maintaining friendly relations with the US is the only reason why cannabis is still illegal there." AND
"They want it to be legal, but in order to not make the US mad they instead adopted a "zero enforcement" policy, where the police are told specifically not to enforce cannabis laws."
Since you're in the mood for debate now, can you please check out this site as I asked you before, and tell me what your counter-debate is to the points raised, by people with experience in the field? I've asked NotMe several times but he won't even look at it. LEAP | Law Enforcement Against Prohibition Their most salient arguments against current policy are found here: LEAP Statement of Principles | LEAP I would love to hear your take on it.
Here's a LEAP representative...I think he expresses some of your and NotMe's views here, in that he doesn't think people should do drugs and even calls them stupid...but he also rather articulately explains why he (and the thousands of other LEAP members, all working or retired cops, prosecutors, judges) still believes it should be a medical issue and and a state's rights issue, not a legal/police issue. He's not a hippie stoner, he's a conservative older man. https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...&hsimp=yhs-002
[quote=ocnjgirl;39251914]Here's a LEAP representative...I think he expresses some of your and NotMe's views here, in that he doesn't think people should do drugs and even calls them stupid...but he also rather articulately explains why he (and the thousands of other LEAP members, all working or retired cops, prosecutors, judges) still believes it should be a medical issue and and a state's rights issue, not a legal/police issue. He's not a hippie stoner, he's a conservative older man.
Hi,, thanks... Ive read Leap many times.. because people who use would like support from any corner for their position.
Very interesting supposition by you... that you would propose that its a "states rights" issue?...
So.. then can I extrapolate that you support a total ban on outdoor growing for MM patients where I live... and a very substantial restrictive growing ordinance while MJ at large remains illegal?... this is what several large California counties have adopted and more are following suit..... is that the state right you would support.. after all it was voted on and passed by the majority of the voters in those counties?
As to some of the other MJ posters... it appears we may have reached an impasse on civility on your part... so it may not be worth having more discourse as you lose objectivity... and really.. we dont even know if we are conversing with someone who is stoned and making remarks while under the influence... but thanks to those of you who described what its like to be high...
It was interesting that there were comments about how much some MJ can stimulate you.. as one argument is how marijuana calms you.. so if it stimulates you do you have a higher propensity towards violent behavior in this state?...
At least one poster claims it makes him a better producer of work with his detailed task... do other people here have the same philosophy? Do you feel all available evidence showing that marijuana dumbs you down is inaccurate and perhaps this poster is experiencing a one off effect from using marijuana while working that is making him/her smarter and more productive?
Care to answer honestly?
How about more unintended consequences of legalization state by state..or the "hodgepodge dodge" as I like to call it... Colorado MJ being sold elsewhere at higher profits.... and Mexican murder dope ending up in Colorado.. https://news.vice.com/article/author...rest-of-the-us
Do any of you users use Mexican murder dope.. or does your some with the good housekeeping seal of approval grown and packaged here in thr US under strict sanitary guidelines and regulations...
Opps... there aren't any
Oh well..its just a plant,, and plants dont murder.... people do
Insults.. but no answers to politely worded questions.. inquiring minds want to know
Im no hippy,, and I like to take showers,,, because I know what its like not to have those necessities...I like to be clean
Im a conservative with a solid sense of right and wrong inculcated into me by excellent parents, healthy role models, the military, a lifetime as a policeman and as a conscious thinker living lightly on the earth
I walk the talk... something I find most people talk a lot in life but fall short in action..my parents demonstrated this to me thru hard work ethic and being scrupulously honest, the military demonstrated this to me through a life of discipline, and police work allowed me the privilege of public service (there is nothing better by the way and I encourage anyone to get involved in bettering their community in non selfish manners (and can we agree drug use is very selfish?).... so.... what people who use drugs generally find as arrogance in me is really perhaps their own own insecurities... and the need to insult one who doesn't use drugs as somehow less qualified to render an opinion about them.. well.. that is really the scrambled eggs of a life less traveled though drug use...
If you feel yourself becoming upset at 1's and 0's on a box and Im beginning to live in your head rent free then perhaps a mirror and looking at your reflection might be in order BEFORE you light up and escape
But,, enough about "you" plural personalizing this thread to me and back to the Mexican murder bud...
so.. there are several questions still on the table
But since it is hard to get answers Ill keep posing more questions that might elicit responses
If marijuana had some facit of legalization and those laws.. once enacted .. if those laws did not met "your" desired outcomes would you violate them?...
Lets say outdoor growing.. if it was outlawed but indoor growing with severe restrictions were put into place.. in a building.. which cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 12k to construct ..with an alarm.. lighting,, security measures.. environmental fan for smell,,power meter restriction, water pollutant monitor... and a 12 plant maximum potentially 16000 joints if you're a half assed grower) per patient who must live at the location requirement...
Would any of you proponents
one,,, go for that?
and
two..... obey it?...
I use the above example because it is real:hamd
Stats are climbing.. over 110k persons have been murdered in Mexico for drugs in the last ten years.. many of those for the lucrative MJ trade to feed Americas thirst... easy to dismiss when you dont feel it...
Last edited by notmeofficer; 04-16-2015 at 09:46 PM..
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