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As far as my feelings about people who use drugs as being "stupid" well.. in the case of marijuana that is just medical fact... I mean THC stunts the growing mind... there are all kinds of studies showing that...
Do any of you proponents disagree with that fact?... that marijuana literally makes you "dumber"?
Respectfully, then, how much time do I have left? You are saying that long-term, repeated, adult use makes one dumber, right?
I am up to 44 years and counting, so how much longer do I have before the "dumbness" kicks in? I promise I'll be braced for your answer.
What about this lady? She's up to 50 years and (somehow) still going. How much longer does she have before her dumbness overtakes her?
She and I, along with millions of others who are too scared to come out of the closet, are eagerly waiting to learn our fate. Inquiring minds would like to know. But please break the news to us gently.
She and I, along with millions of others who are too scared to come out of the closet, are eagerly waiting to learn our fate. Inquiring minds would like to know. But please break the news to us gently.
Well... it would be interesting to dissect her brain and see if there were any defects that could be associated with marijuana usage. To be a good test it would also need to measure a before and after and compare it to the mean.... since there is none of that in this case its a story no different than the 100 year old Russian woman who smoked unfiltered cigarettes everyday of her life but didn't get cancer .
We could benefit from long term fda ten year testing ... don't think its going to happen with this president ... he is only too happy to have a stoned populous... heck.. maybe that's part of his plan... its way easier to have zoned out subjects than it is sober ones... sober citizens have their entire brain capacity to draw upon...
Since you personalized this to yourself only you can imagine what your life might be without drug use... only you can know what missed opportunities happened... that I don't expect you to share for... that would require very conscious introspection... drug use doesn't support careful unbiased introspection... it overloads the chemical receptors in the brain skewing other processes.
Last edited by notmeofficer; 04-17-2015 at 04:02 AM..
Here's a LEAP representative...I think he expresses some of your and NotMe's views here, in that he doesn't think people should do drugs and even calls them stupid...but he also rather articulately explains why he (and the thousands of other LEAP members, all working or retired cops, prosecutors, judges) still believes it should be a medical issue and and a state's rights issue, not a legal/police issue. He's not a hippie stoner, he's a conservative older man.
Hi,, thanks... Ive read Leap many times.. because people who use would like support from any corner for their position.
Very interesting supposition by you... that you would propose that its a "states rights" issue?...
So.. then can I extrapolate that you support a total ban on outdoor growing for MM patients where I live... and a very substantial restrictive growing ordinance while MJ at large remains illegal?... this is what several large California counties have adopted and more are following suit..... is that the state right you would support.. after all it was voted on and passed by the majority of the voters in those counties?
As to some of the other MJ posters... it appears we may have reached an impasse on civility on your part... so it may not be worth having more discourse as you lose objectivity... and really.. we dont even know if we are conversing with someone who is stoned and making remarks while under the influence... but thanks to those of you who described what its like to be high...
It was interesting that there were comments about how much some MJ can stimulate you.. as one argument is how marijuana calms you.. so if it stimulates you do you have a higher propensity towards violent behavior in this state?...
At least one poster claims it makes him a better producer of work with his detailed task... do other people here have the same philosophy? Do you feel all available evidence showing that marijuana dumbs you down is inaccurate and perhaps this poster is experiencing a one off effect from using marijuana while working that is making him/her smarter and more productive?
Care to answer honestly?
How about more unintended consequences of legalization state by state..or the "hodgepodge dodge" as I like to call it... Colorado MJ being sold elsewhere at higher profits.... and Mexican murder dope ending up in Colorado.. https://news.vice.com/article/author...rest-of-the-us
Do any of you users use Mexican murder dope.. or does your some with the good housekeeping seal of approval grown and packaged here in thr US under strict sanitary guidelines and regulations...
Opps... there aren't any
Oh well..its just a plant,, and plants dont murder.... people do
I was listing LEAPs beliefs....I am not trying to argue with you. As I asked you before, I really would like to know what you think of their proposals and the list of their statement of principles. You are law enforcement, they are law enforcement, you are speaking for your law experience they are speaking from theirs...I would really like to hear what you believe about the things they are saying from the perspective of law enforcement, and why you think their feelings on the matter are so different, especially since they agree with you about some things...like drug use is stupid (did you watch the video of that rep? What did you think?)...but you refuse to have a discussion, all you want to do is disparage me and the group and talk about "unfettered use" over and over. That's why this time I wasn't asking you.
LEAP doesn't believe drug use is good, either. They simply don't believe prohibition works. That it should be a medical/health issue and not a justice/law enforcement issue. That is what we should be discussing, but instead you guys want to make it about whether pot is good or bad for individuals and the world at large..that is not the debate. LEAP feels the War and Drugs is money and lives wasted and it doesn't do a thing to help...I keep waiting to hear from you and Atalanta what your alternate proposal is, but you just keep saying the same things over and over that ignore the realities of our current policies, and trying to make the debate about the pros and cons of pot instead of what you think should be done. If prohibition isn't the solution (and obviously it's not working, any fool can see that) and you don't like LEAP's solution, then please tell us, what is yours?
Instead, it merely quotes a bunch of politicians - and politicians are notoriously cowardly when it comes to legalization - who claim that legalization in the United States will (not has - will) increase violence in Central America. But that's not with the title says. This thread's title is not "Politicians say legalization will increase violence". Instead, it affirmatively uses the present tense - "increases" to claim that legalization is causing increased violence in Central American, then it cites an article which makes no such claims.
I was listing LEAPs beliefs....I am not trying to argue with you. As I asked you before, I really would like to know what you think of their proposals and the list of their statement of principles. You are law enforcement, they are law enforcement, you are speaking for your law experience they are speaking from theirs...I would really like to hear what you believe about the things they are saying from the perspective of law enforcement, and why you think their feelings on the matter are so different, especially since they agree with you about some things...like drug use is stupid (did you watch the video of that rep? What did you think?)...but you refuse to have a discussion, all you want to do is disparage me and the group and talk about "unfettered use" over and over. That's why this time I wasn't asking you.
LEAP doesn't believe drug use is good, either. They simply don't believe prohibition works. That it should be a medical/health issue and not a justice/law enforcement issue. That is what we should be discussing, but instead you guys want to make it about whether pot is good or bad for individuals and the world at large..that is not the debate. LEAP feels the War and Drugs is money and lives wasted and it doesn't do a thing to help...I keep waiting to hear from you and Atalanta what your alternate proposal is, but you just keep saying the same things over and over that ignore the realities of our current policies, and trying to make the debate about the pros and cons of pot instead of what you think should be done. If prohibition isn't the solution (and obviously it's not working, any fool can see that) and you don't like LEAP's solution, then please tell us, what is yours?
Whether marijuana is good for our society absolutely is open for debate
Leap generally consists of liberals..libritarians... activists and others who are agenda driven. With now over a million leos in the US now there will be people from all walks of life and persuasions. Some leap premises are already fully implemented here in california...from drug offenders being released in mass from prison.. to avenues for medical mj... to decriminalizing small amounts of mj ( I haven't written a simple possession ticket in over 20 years)
As far as a group... self serving mostly retirees who want public speaking engagements and desire pot for dollars ... as far as an impactful group... no.. not really
In any subculture of our society it is easy to find persons all over the place
Respect by leos as a group.. heck..I don't know for sure.. but I suspect the average joe street copper thinks... more idiots with agendas
I know that is my off the cuff read.. I've looked at their website.. read some of the bios.. looked at their mission statement and platform ... nothing really new..
You call it a war on drugs.. I don't.. but I also see historic policy doesn't work well and may not reflect the will of the people
I support ..and have historically supported regardless of naysayers
Reclassification
Fda testing
Decriminalization for simple possession
Which is the way it is in California
Medical marijuana for verifiable conditions... not as Dr feelgood for anything ..its its medicine great it as such
I am not.. based upon current and real mj experience for
Gross legalization...open growing.. and marketing by neighborhood dealers called by any other name but what they actually are
Unlike proponents ..many of whom arent truthful based upon my contemporary experience I am consistent in my belief for just cause... you.. the global you.. who are proponents would disagree. Money will eventually drive this agenda and we will be passengers... perhaps I can have effect one person at a time
Based upon my scenario ... real.. above about mj ordinances enacted by the will of the people here... would you violate such laws if they didn't fulfill your agenda or desires?
Last edited by notmeofficer; 04-17-2015 at 06:16 AM..
Whether narijysna is good for our society absolutely is open for debate
Leap generally consists of liberals... activists and others who are agenda driven. With now over a million leos in the US now there will be people from all walks of life and persuasions. Some leap premises are already fully implemented here in california...from drug offenders being released in mass from prison.. to avenues for medical mj... to decriminalizing small amounts of mj ( I haven'twritten a ssimple possession ticket in over 20 years)
As far as a group... self serving mostly retirees who want public speaking engagements and desire pot for dollars ... as far as an impactful group... no.. not really
In any subculture of our society it is easy to find persons all over the place
Respect by leos as a group.. heck..I don't know for sure.. but I suspect the average joe street copper thinks... more idiots with agendas
I know that is my off the cuff read.. I've looked at their website.. read some of the bios.. looked at their mission statement and platform ... nothing really new..
You call it a war on drugs.. I don't.. but I also see historic policy doesn't work well and may not reflect the will of the people
I support ..and have historically supported regardless of naysayers
Reclassification
Fda testing
Decriminalization for simple possession
Which is the way it is in California
Medical marijuana for verifiable conditions... not as Dr feelgood for anything ..its its medicine great it as such
I am not.. based upon current and real mj experience for
Gross legalization...open growing.. and marketing by neighborhood dealers called by any other name but what they actually are
Next time just say "I don't care to read and comment on any of their individual points, I won't change my mind nor address them with you in this thread". That's fine, except you and Atalanta are the ones claiming we're shying away from actual discussion here.
Insults.. but no answers to politely worded questions.. inquiring minds want to know
Im no hippy,, and I like to take showers,,, because I know what its like not to have those necessities...I like to be clean
Im a conservative with a solid sense of right and wrong inculcated into me by excellent parents, healthy role models, the military, a lifetime as a policeman and as a conscious thinker living lightly on the earth
I walk the talk... something I find most people talk a lot in life but fall short in action..my parents demonstrated this to me thru hard work ethic and being scrupulously honest, the military demonstrated this to me through a life of discipline, and police work allowed me the privilege of public service (there is nothing better by the way and I encourage anyone to get involved in bettering their community in non selfish manners (and can we agree drug use is very selfish?).... so.... what people who use drugs generally find as arrogance in me is really perhaps their own own insecurities... and the need to insult one who doesn't use drugs as somehow less qualified to render an opinion about them.. well.. that is really the scrambled eggs of a life less traveled though drug use...
If you feel yourself becoming upset at 1's and 0's on a box and Im beginning to live in your head rent free then perhaps a mirror and looking at your reflection might be in order BEFORE you light up and escape
But,, enough about "you" plural personalizing this thread to me and back to the Mexican murder bud...
so.. there are several questions still on the table
But since it is hard to get answers Ill keep posing more questions that might elicit responses
If marijuana had some facit of legalization and those laws.. once enacted .. if those laws did not met "your" desired outcomes would you violate them?...
Lets say outdoor growing.. if it was outlawed but indoor growing with severe restrictions were put into place.. in a building.. which cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 12k to construct ..with an alarm.. lighting,, security measures.. environmental fan for smell,,power meter restriction, water pollutant monitor... and a 12 plant maximum potentially 16000 joints if you're a half assed grower) per patient who must live at the location requirement...
Would any of you proponents
one,,, go for that?
and
two..... obey it?...
I use the above example because it is real:hamd
Stats are climbing.. over 110k persons have been murdered in Mexico for drugs in the last ten years.. many of those for the lucrative MJ trade to feed Americas thirst... easy to dismiss when you dont feel it...
With all due respect Mr. officer... I would like to have the ability to LEGALLY grow a few plants for myself, be it in my garden, or in my house for my OWN personal use, without the fear of being prosecuted and having my life ruined over it! I have no desire to sell it, or mass cultivate it for distribution! Would I share a little with a friend? Absolutely! But that is about the extent of it.
It was interesting that there were comments about how much some MJ can stimulate you... as one argument is how marijuana calms you... so if it stimulates you do you have a higher propensity towards violent behavior in this state?
Oh good grief. Emphatically, NO.
"Stimulation" in this case means it provides a creative spark, a desire to create beauty.
Alcohol is a CNS depressant. Does it increase the tendency toward aggressive behavior in some people? Well yes, because it's alcohol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
Do any of you users use Mexican murder dope.. or does your some with the good housekeeping seal of approval grown and packaged here in thr US under strict sanitary guidelines and regulations...
In 2014, the US Border Patrol saw a plunge in seizures of pot heading northward. Its agents nabbed 1.9 million pounds of ganja, a 24 percent reduction compared with the 2.5 million seized in 2011 — before Colorado and Washington State first voted to legalize recreational marijuana.
Capturing less drugs doesn’t necessarily mean less drugs are coming over. Agents could be working less or focusing more on other problems. Yet one sign they are as vigilant as ever is that they made increased seizures of some other drugs, especially crystal meth, which was busted in record quantities.
Mexican security forces have also noted a dive in marijuana production. In the most recent figures released in September, the Mexican government said that it had seized 971 metric tons (1,070 US tons) of cannabis inside Mexico in 2013, the lowest amount since 2000.
“In the long run, it looks like the US market for illegal Mexican marijuana will keep shrinking,” says Alejandro Hope, a drug expert in Mexico. “The logic of the legal marijuana market is that it will force prices down. This would take out the big profits from the illegal market. A good way to make some money could be to short the prices of marijuana.”
Well... it would be interesting to dissect her brain and see if there were any defects that could be associated with marijuana usage.
The problem with that is your pattern is obvious and unchanging. If her brain showed some anomalies, you would point and jump up and down and say "See? Told you it was harming your brain!"
But if her brain was perfectly normal you would just slough it off and call it an oddity, then continue to spout your propaganda about how damaging it is to the brain and how it makes one "dumber".
One thing it would not do is make you stop and reexamine your position. There is no amount of evidence that would cause you to do that, is there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
To be a good test it would also need to measure a before and after and compare it to the mean.... since there is none of that in this case its a story no different than the 100 year old Russian woman who smoked unfiltered cigarettes everyday of her life but didn't get cancer .
Except that 100 year old people who have smoked cigarettes their whole life really are an anomaly. How many have done that?
Here's the part you won't accept. There really are millions of us long-term users that are in the closet, afraid to come out because of the draconian punishment involved for most of them if they do. How many will have to surface without health problems before you realize the she and I, with our combined 94 years of experience, are not anomalies?
Great way to deflect my original question, by the way. You are a master at answering questions without giving any answers.
So, my questions are:
How long must someone use cannabis on a daily basis without developing any health problems, who are also productive members of society, before it will make you rethink your belief that cannabis use makes one "dumber"?
How many long-term daily users, with 30 years or more of experience, will have to surface with their brain intact before you rethink your belief that cannabis use makes one "dumber"?
BTW, mine came from the bedroom next to the room I am sitting in. Hopefully my growing it in my bedroom didn't cause too many central Americans to lose their life last night as they were herded into California and forced to grow at gunpoint.
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