Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 07-01-2015, 05:55 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, La. USA
6,354 posts, read 3,656,336 times
Reputation: 2522

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
Never mind that every product we use, has been made with the use of fossil fuel.


Just to cut emission rated to 1990 levels (from 2008), the lowest estimate is 45 trillion, and it could very well cost 545 trillion
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/ad...93-2008.08.pdf

Who's paying for this exactly? The American tax payer?
Perhaps your source speaks of things like solar and wind power not being able to supply our energy needs (without tremendous costs.)


Why not just use nuclear power until future technology improves solar power systems?

Statistically speaking nuclear power is much safer than fossil fuels.
Fossil fuels are far deadlier than nuclear power - tech - 23 March 2011 - New Scientist

And the nuclear power plants we already use may have actually saved 1.8 million lives.
Nuclear power may have saved 1.8 million lives otherwise lost to fossil fuels, may save up to 7 million more. - The Curious Wavefunction - Scientific American Blog Network


It would seem our energy companies have the ability to build nuclear power plants and our electric grid is capable of spreading their power. And perhaps the cost figures you posted involve using solar and wind power.

And I would assume things like LED light bulbs, high gas millage cars, protein sources other than cows and chickens, nuclear power, and some solar and wind power plants could just about solve our carbon emission problems.

Last edited by chad3; 07-01-2015 at 06:30 PM..

 
Old 07-01-2015, 05:58 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Gilead
12,716 posts, read 7,817,259 times
Reputation: 11338
America could completely ban the automobile but because of the rapid industrialization of Asia it wouldn't make much of a difference. What is needed is GLOBAL cooperation towards reducing carbon emissions. A new tax in America would do nothing but make the poor poorer.
 
Old 07-01-2015, 06:04 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,068,169 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
You know the answer to your first question, as you and I have been through this several times before.... What facts do you think I'm misrepresenting?
When you say a carbon tax has worked in BC do you not think it should be important to note that about 95 percent of the power is not subject to the tax?

On the other hand when we look at an industry that is carbon intesive:



Quote:
Cement industry upset by B.C. carbon tax - Canadian Consulting Engineer

The cement industry is calling a foul by the British Columbia provincial government after the province’s recent budget did not change how the carbon tax is applied to cement.


The industry objects to the fact that unlike locally produced cement, cement imported from the U.S. or Asia is exempt from the province’s carbon tax, giving foreign producers an unfair advantage. Since the carbon tax was introduced in 2008, local producers have lost nearly a third of the market share to importers.
The odd part is this is actually exacerbating emissions because of shipping.
 
Old 07-01-2015, 06:52 PM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,230,847 times
Reputation: 12102
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
And your aircraft runs on imagination I guess....I like our carbon tax and so do most of the people in BC. I don't get other people's money...I get my own money back through income tax cuts.
Other. Peoples. Money!

And the US doesn't have a carbon tax and my plane runs on JetA. Refined kerosine.

Thanks for playing.
 
Old 07-01-2015, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,548 posts, read 37,151,051 times
Reputation: 14011
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
The only people who would buy less are the underclass who have a hard time affording things to begin with. Everyone else would continue to be consumers, but their wallets will be a light bit lighter...
Then in your world that would be a good thing...The people with money are footing the bill, and even their wallets are not much lighter...

Quote:
No it would not, because most of the world would still rely on fossil fuel energy irregardless.... And in a few hundred years from now, permafrost leaks would take over co2 emissions (if you believe the climate models)
Nobody say the world has to stop using fossil fuels....As I said I believe it may be too late.

Quote:
And try convincing the Indians, Chinese, and other developing nations to raise energy prices when nearly 2 billion people don't have a light bulb in their homes.
No problem if the tax is revenue neutral. The world's largest greenhouse gas emitter aims to cut carbon dioxide emissions per unit of gross domestic product (GDP) by 60 percent to 65 percent from the 2005 level by 2030, according to China's intended nationally determined contributions (INDC), an action plan submitted to the Secretariat of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change. China Climate Change Info-Net

They are making great progress, as in 2014, carbon emissions per unit of GDP was 33.8 percent lower than the 2005 level, so they are already half way to their target.


Quote:
Great for you, but what about those who don't pay federal income taxes which in the US is 47% of all households? Do they just get a check in the mail then?
I'm not talking about the US. In Canada 30% of adults pay no income tax, and they do get a check in the mail...

The B.C. low income climate action tax credit helps offset the impact of the carbon taxes paid by low income individuals or families.

The low income climate action tax credit is combined with the federal goods and services tax/harmonized sales tax (GST/HST) credit into one quarterly payment. The payments are issued by the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) four times a year in July, October, January and April, and generally fall on the fifth day of the month.
The low income climate action tax credit is a non-taxable payment. This means that you don't need to include it as income when you file your income tax return. Low Income Climate Action - Province of British Columbia



Quote:
And a carbon tax (energy tax) would still make EVERYTHING more expensive. So it's a non starter here anyway.
You are probably right......Too many head in sand deniers in the US.
 
Old 07-01-2015, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,548 posts, read 37,151,051 times
Reputation: 14011
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
When you say a carbon tax has worked in BC do you not think it should be important to note that about 95 percent of the power is not subject to the tax?

On the other hand when we look at an industry that is carbon intesive:





The odd part is this is actually exacerbating emissions because of shipping.
Did you miss this? Cement Industry Welcomes B.C. Government Action on Carbon Tax - Cement Association of Canada

Are you saying that because a problem is difficult and will not be free of cost, that we shouldn't even try?
 
Old 07-01-2015, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,548 posts, read 37,151,051 times
Reputation: 14011
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Other. Peoples. Money!

And the US doesn't have a carbon tax and my plane runs on JetA. Refined kerosine.

Thanks for playing.
I thought you owned a Cessna T310, but both avgas and kerosene produce CO2.....I'm beginning to think your aircraft is a figment of your imagination.
 
Old 07-01-2015, 09:01 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,068,169 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
The world's largest greenhouse gas emitter aims to cut carbon dioxide emissions per unit of gross domestic product (GDP) by 60 percent to 65 percent from the 2005 level by 2030, according to China's intended nationally determined contributions (INDC), an action plan submitted to the Secretariat of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change. China Climate Change Info-Net
This is not a cap, it's a reduction in carbon intensity which is calculated using GPD. You reduce carbon intesity by increasing efficiency and the Chinese do not need any incentive to increase efficiency, They are already far behind the curve. Their emissions will continue to grow dependent on the increase in their GDP.
 
Old 07-01-2015, 09:03 PM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,524,460 times
Reputation: 10096
Answer: It won't.

/End thread.
 
Old 07-01-2015, 09:06 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,068,169 times
Reputation: 17865


Firstly where is the 22 million gift to the cement industry coming from?

Secondly if they are switching to higher cost fuels it still hasn't solved the problem now has it?


Quote:
Are you saying that because a problem is difficult and will not be free of cost, that we shouldn't even try?
What I'm saying is the situation in BC does not apply to most of the rest of the world becsue about 95% of the power is not subject to the tax.

This is like saying we solved the obesity problem by taxing soda when you couldn't buy a soda to begin with.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:34 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top