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Listen, it’s obvious you are itching to paint all black people with the stereotypes you hold against certain other blacks. Do you do that with other races, too? (That’s rhetorical. Don’t bother answering.)
Personally, I am not interested in wasting my time explaining to someone why all black people shouldn’t be treated based on your silly prejudices.
That's good because I never said or implied anything about ALL black people. You clearly don't understand how generalizations work. And you can bury your head in your butt and pretend like they don't exist, but they do and always will. It's human nature, its part of our survival instinct. We put people in boxes (threatening person vs nonthreatening, good looking or not). It is learned through experience even when you don't realize it. You will do it many times before the day is over.
Last edited by CaseyB; 05-08-2018 at 09:36 AM..
Reason: rude
You don't need to cite examples, I'm aware of them and do not deny that they happen.
Privilege is a special advantage afforded to one group and denied others. Being treated decently isn't a special advantage - it's just the way all people should be treated. Period.
To state that this is white privilege only means you think nobody should be treated like white people, and everyone should have their bags checked at the door.
No it doesn't, that's silly.
I think a lot of people are getting hung up on the word "privilege," and missing the point as a result. You are right, though, when you say that all people should be treated decently.
I think a lot of people are getting hung up on the word "privilege," and missing the point as a result. You are right, though, when you say that all people should be treated decently.
I think a lot of people are getting hung up on the word "privilege," and missing the point as a result. You are right, though, when you say that all people should be treated decently.
Getting hung up on the word privilege? Words are important. Privilege means a special right or advantage given to one group exclusively and not to other groups.
First of all, not all stores treat customers differently, so the above doesn't hold true. Secondly, poor whites are often treated worse than middle-class blacks.
Being treated fairly and equally is not a special right, so it's not a privilege.
Nobody is treating white people better than they deserve to be treated - which would really be the definition of a privilege - they're treating us the way everyone should be treated.
I also gave examples of black people being treated better. Is that black privilege?
I think a lot of people are getting hung up on the word "privilege," and missing the point as a result. You are right, though, when you say that all people should be treated decently.
I always thought the word "privilege"' was too loaded. I think "advantages" is neutral enough. There are "advantages" to being attractive. Consciously or sub-consciously, attractive people can, at times, receive different treatment than unattractive people. It doesn't mean that all attractive people are guaranteed to be successful, or that unattractive people are doomed to failure. It doesn't even mean that there are no downsides to being attractive. I also don't think it means that attractive people need to feel guilty about it. I do think it's better if an attractive person recognizes that the advantage exists.
I think it exists, but I would expand a bit on the original quote, to clarify things.
A big part of privilege has to do with assumptions, and benefit of the doubt.
If you can get the job or the spot at a top-tier university or the scholarship without anyone wondering if you got it because of affirmative action or some kind of quota system, that's privilege. You are being given the benefit of the doubt.
If you can go to a store and not be followed around because the employees think you are there to shoplift, that's privilege. You are being given the benefit of the doubt.
If you can walk or drive anywhere you want without arousing anyone's suspicion, that's privilege. You are being given the benefit of the doubt.
The first example, particularly regarding jobs, is usually white privilege, sometimes male privilege, particularly if it's a technical field: "How did she get that job, everyone knows men are better at STEM?"
The second two, mostly white privilege, and sometimes age privilege. Nobody suspects Grandma of shoplifting, but people watch teens like hawks.
Hell, I can even think of an example of female privilege. A woman can choose to be a stay-at-home parent and no one blinks an eye, but if a man does it, someone, at some point, will say that he's a bad provider - a deadbeat who isn't taking proper care of his family.
So...yeah, privilege is real. If the terminology offends you, think for a moment about the examples above, and call it by a different name if you like. That doesn't make it any less real.
As for those saying people are blaming privilege for all their misfortunes, I didn't see anything in the original post that even hinted at such a thing.
Middle-aged, middle class white woman here.
The bolded is what I've seen. I worked briefly with a young white woman who was a Harvard Law grad. Both of her parents had attended Harvard and donated literally millions of dollars. We were talking one day about a young Hispanic woman who had just been admitted to law school at Berkeley Law. The white woman smirked and said, "Of course she got in, she's Hispanic." Her assumptions were that she had gotten in on merit, despite her status as a legacy and daughter of big donors, and that the Hispanic woman got in on affirmative action.
I've seen other examples of that among my contemporaries when it comes to college admissions as our children are college age. A white friend whose son was wait-listed at a service academy while a girl from another high school was admitted also chalked it up to race. Never mind that her son was not even in the top ten percent of his class and that the girl who was admitted was Valedictorian.
The assumption that white people get ahead on merit and POC get ahead because of a special break is one form of white privilege.
The other obvious area where white privilege plays a role is with law enforcement. I've never been stopped by LE without a reason and I've never been afraid when stopped. Neither has my husband or daughter. To be able to walk around without fear is a privilege.
The bolded is what I've seen. I worked briefly with a young white woman who was a Harvard Law grad. Both of her parents had attended Harvard and donated literally millions of dollars. We were talking one day about a young Hispanic woman who had just been admitted to law school at Berkeley Law. The white woman smirked and said, "Of course she got in, she's Hispanic." Her assumptions were that she had gotten in on merit, despite her status as a legacy and daughter of big donors, and that the Hispanic woman got in on affirmative action.
I've seen other examples of that among my contemporaries when it comes to college admissions as our children are college age. A white friend whose son was wait-listed at a service academy while a girl from another high school was admitted also chalked it up to race. Never mind that her son was not even in the top ten percent of his class and that the girl who was admitted was Valedictorian.
The assumption that white people get ahead on merit and POC get ahead because of a special break is one form of white privilege.
The other obvious area where white privilege plays a role is with law enforcement. I've never been stopped by LE without a reason and I've never been afraid when stopped. Neither has my husband or daughter. To be able to walk around without fear is a privilege.
get rid of affirmative action, and all that goes away.
Getting hung up on the word privilege? Words are important. Privilege means a special right or advantage given to one group exclusively and not to other groups.
First of all, not all stores treat customers differently, so the above doesn't hold true. Secondly, poor whites are often treated worse than middle-class blacks.
Being treated fairly and equally is not a special right, so it's not a privilege.
Nobody is treating white people better than they deserve to be treated - which would really be the definition of a privilege - they're treating us the way everyone should be treated.
I also gave examples of black people being treated better. Is that black privilege?
I agree with you that words matter, but right now, "privilege" is the commonly used term. I understand the point you are making, but I still think that arguing about semantics can end up as nothing more than a means of ignoring the problem.
As for the examples you gave, I can't really address them, as I haven't observed that kind of behavior. People stepping over dying colleagues, really?
I always thought the word "privilege"' was too loaded. I think "advantages" is neutral enough. There are "advantages" to being attractive. Consciously or sub-consciously, attractive people can, at times, receive different treatment than unattractive people. It doesn't mean that all attractive people are guaranteed to be successful, or that unattractive people are doomed to failure. It doesn't even mean that there are no downsides to being attractive. I also don't think it means that attractive people need to feel guilty about it. I do think it's better if an attractive person recognizes that the advantage exists.
You may be right about "advantage," as the word "privilege" seems to imply material wealth, when that is not the core of the issue. Witness many of the comments here claiming that privilege is a guarantee of success even though the initial post said that was not the case.
I always thought the word "privilege"' was too loaded. I think "advantages" is neutral enough. There are "advantages" to being attractive. Consciously or sub-consciously, attractive people can, at times, receive different treatment than unattractive people. It doesn't mean that all attractive people are guaranteed to be successful, or that unattractive people are doomed to failure. It doesn't even mean that there are no downsides to being attractive. It just means that, on balance, in our society, there's more upside to being attractive than unattractive
That’s interesting! Advantage could be a better and more accurate word. I also love your beauty advantage comparison, which is certainly a real thing.
I will also say, MP, that a good friend and I recently had a discussion about whether black privilege is a thing. I’m not 100% certain where I land on all of it, but it’s not unreasonable to think there are certain situations where being black is an advantage.
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