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Old 09-24-2018, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,438,068 times
Reputation: 4831

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I'm guessing most people just aren't that interested in getting involved in politics/economics at the local or national level.

I'm certainly not - I've got my own dreams to follow, and I'm happy to leave all that stuff to politicians and economists.

If Cubans are free to follow their dreams, then they're doing alright.
Your personal achievements are not the same as freedom, if people are to have freedom, they must have a say in the economic institutions that affect their lives.

Privatizing them and giving them authoritarian control is antithetical to freedom, just because you don’t want to practice those freedoms doesn’t mean others shouldn’t.
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:05 PM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
16,352 posts, read 8,103,478 times
Reputation: 9726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
The government and political structure are different things, I’m praising their grassroots styled direct democracy.
And how would you know about Cuba's "grassroots styled direct democracy" if you haven't even been there?
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,438,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r small View Post
And how would you know about Cuba's "grassroots styled direct democracy" if you haven't even been there?
You can read about it. There are examples.
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,696,173 times
Reputation: 7608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Your personal achievements are not the same as freedom, if people are to have freedom, they must have a say in the economic institutions that affect their lives.

Privatizing them and giving them authoritarian control is antithetical to freedom, just because you don’t want to practice those freedoms doesn’t mean others shouldn’t.
Of course they are -if you're not free to follow your dreams, then what is freedom for?

I can have a say in economic institutions, but it's not my scene -being forced to participate in how economic institutions are run, against my will, is the opposite of freedom and is a call to arms.
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:16 PM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
16,352 posts, read 8,103,478 times
Reputation: 9726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
You can read about it. There are examples.
Guffaw!
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,438,068 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Of course they are -if you're not free to follow your dreams, then what is freedom for?

I can have a say in economic institutions, but it's not my scene -being forced to participate in how economic institutions are run, against my will, is the opposite of freedom and is a call to arms.
Dreams such as pursuing your own career path exist in any free society. If by dreams you mean owning more capital than you operate, then no, that’s not freedom. Taking away other people’s freedom for your own sake is theft, not freedom or success.
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,696,173 times
Reputation: 7608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Dreams such as pursuing your own career path exist in any free society. If by dreams you mean owning more capital than you operate, then no, that’s not freedom. Taking away other people’s freedom for your own sake is theft, not freedom or success.
No one can even have their own definition of dreams/freedom in your society.

I don't have a career path - I just work for money, when I need to.
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,438,068 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
No one can even have their own definition of dreams/freedom in your society.

I don't have a career path.
Freedom is a foreign concept to those who have never been free. You can do whatever you want, but you can’t claim authority over things you don’t operate. That just gives you excess power to control others and limit their freedoms.
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:31 PM
exm
 
3,722 posts, read 1,784,010 times
Reputation: 2850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I’m American, my parents are from Iran.

Seems like the Cuban or Iranian society are a better place to life for OP.
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,696,173 times
Reputation: 7608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Freedom is a foreign concept to those who have never been free. You can do whatever you want, but you can’t claim authority over things you don’t operate. That just gives you excess power to control others and limit their freedoms.
You might want to explain that to the guy who's about to get executed, in post 172.

Sounds like the only type of freedom, is someone else's definition of freedom.

Last edited by Joe90; 09-24-2018 at 01:41 PM..
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