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Old 07-14-2019, 07:26 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Wait. According to many on CD, if education doesn't teach skills that directly lead to a job/making money, it's a waste if time. Therefore, English/Literature/Writing instruction -- even at the high school level -- is pointless.

In any case, considering that many/most "good" schools assign little to no required reading (let alone poor school districts), your prescription is a bold one. Most teens today can't get through a short read like Of Mice and Men, so hoping they'll read Atlas Shrugged is a pipedream. This really shouldn't be surprising, though, since many/most adults barely pick up a book.
They rarely sit around the living room listening to the radio either. Just because people don't read a book today does not mean they do not read.

 
Old 07-14-2019, 07:27 AM
 
7,827 posts, read 3,383,094 times
Reputation: 5141
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
An individual can start a business and succeed. Tens of millions can not.

This is where the argument fails.
But, everyone is better off because people can start businesses and provide services and goods that we all need and require.

Capitalism is not perfect, but it does provide the best possible outcomes for human development and progress. As a utilitarian system, it has been the most powerful force to life tens of millions out of poverty, improve health and standard of living and bring development.

Socialism, as practiced in North Korea and Cuba with central planning and ownership is not the answer and clearly failed.

However, within a capitalist system, we obviously should have a safety net and social welfare system to assist those who do fall through the system, as well as rules to keep the free-market system working well.

When we hear people speak of European countries as socialist, that is a falsehood. For example, we should be referring to 'Scandinavian capitalism' because those systems are not socialist at all, having an overwhelmingly private economy with private banking and lending, private housing, etc.

Having a safety net is not socialism, but an integral part of advanced capitalism.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 07:34 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
But, everyone is better off because people can start businesses and provide services and goods that we all need and require.
No one is advocating for people to not start a business.

Quote:
Capitalism is not perfect, but it does provide the best possible outcomes for human development and progress. As a utilitarian system, it has been the most powerful force to life tens of millions out of poverty, improve health and standard of living and bring development.

Socialism, as practiced in North Korea and Cuba with central planning and ownership is not the answer and clearly failed.

Nobody is pushing for us to be N. Korea.

Quote:
However, within a capitalist system, we obviously should have a safety net and social welfare system to assist those who do fall through the system, as well as rules to keep the free-market system working well.

When we hear people speak of European countries as socialist, that is a falsehood. For example, we should be referring to 'Scandinavian capitalism' because those systems are not socialist at all, having an overwhelmingly private economy with private banking and lending, private housing, etc.

Having a safety net is not socialism, but an integral part of advanced capitalism.
The argument........we gave billions to the markets. By and large a small percentage gained the most for that. They did not work for it. It was gave by the government.

The argument is that should be better spread around for the benefit of all.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 07:38 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Wait. According to many on CD, if education doesn't teach skills that directly lead to a job/making money, it's a waste if time. Therefore, English/Literature/Writing instruction -- even at the high school level -- is pointless.
Not exactly true. Any time the goal of English/Literature/Writing instruction is to allow students the opportunity to learn how to think instead of what to think, it's valuable. Sadly, the latter is that to which our country's public school system has devolved.

Case in point... My youngest kid had a dingbat AP English Lit teacher. Oh, she was degreed to the hilt at our state flagship university, UIUC (very competitive admissions, kids with ACT scores of 30 are routinely rejected), BUT because she taught a liberal arts course, everything was graded subjectively instead of objectively.

That teacher consistently criticized my kid's work, even complaining to us that kid was doing only C-level work while being capable of much more. My kid disagreed. We disagreed. Nothing we could do about it. The teacher graded purely subjectively, and our kid's interpretations of various works of English Literature and their themes didn't mirror the teacher's perceptions.

Well... lo and behold, AP Exam time comes around. My kid is the only one in the school's AP English Lit student population (out of 3 classes) to score a 5 (perfect score). Only 6.8% of AP English Lit test takers nationwide score a 5, and that self-selected AP English Lit test group consists of only high achievers, what with it being the College Board's AP program and all.

We ALL internalized that lesson... Liberal arts courses that are nothing more than parroting the teacher's opinions and biases are useless. If you can do that instead of thinking for yourself, you'll get the A.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,212 posts, read 19,210,527 times
Reputation: 14911
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Actually, we're currently living in a time of peak prosperity. The number of millionaires in the world has increased by 155%. The number of ultra high net worth individuals (defined in the Credit Suisse Global Wealth report, the source of this info, as people with a net worth above US $50 million) increased by 216%. Of that latter group, 51% reside in North America and 49% live somewhere else in the world, demonstrating that the US continues to dominate in terms of the ultra wealthy. According to the forecast in that report, the US is expected to have the highest growth of millionaires (in both standard and high net worth) in the world over the next five years.

False. My spouse and I did it, both having come from humble beginnings, and we know many others who have, as well.

Only those who *think* they can't are doomed to never do so. IOW... a self-fulfilling prophecy.
The number of weathy individuals is not the standard for a healthy economy. It is the bulk of the population being able to support themselves adequately, including food, clothing, houseing, education, and transportation. The more money that goes to middle and poor class families who will immediately spend it for goods and services, the stronger the economy. The wealthy piling it up in banks does little to help the economy, except by making capital available to loan.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,212 posts, read 19,210,527 times
Reputation: 14911
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Actually, we're currently living in a time of peak prosperity. The number of millionaires in the world has increased by 155%. The number of ultra high net worth individuals (defined in the Credit Suisse Global Wealth report, the source of this info, as people with a net worth above US $50 million) increased by 216%. Of that latter group, 51% reside in North America and 49% live somewhere else in the world, demonstrating that the US continues to dominate in terms of the ultra wealthy. According to the forecast in that report, the US is expected to have the highest growth of millionaires (in both standard and high net worth) in the world over the next five years.

False. My spouse and I did it, both having come from humble beginnings, and we know many others who have, as well.

Only those who *think* they can't are doomed to never do so. IOW... a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It always fascinates me how many multimillionaires post on this board. It's amazing they have nothing better to do with their time and money.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,843,905 times
Reputation: 11116
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
They rarely sit around the living room listening to the radio either. Just because people don't read a book today does not mean they do not read.
I didn't say they don't read.

But many adults don't have the interest, the patience, or the mental discipline to concentrate long enough to get through more than a few pages of an online article. Many others won't even do that. If adults won't read a classic piece of literature, especially one that's somewhat lengthy and challenging, then it's not surprising that most teenagers won't either.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,212 posts, read 19,210,527 times
Reputation: 14911
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
But, everyone is better off because people can start businesses and provide services and goods that we all need and require.

Capitalism is not perfect, but it does provide the best possible outcomes for human development and progress. As a utilitarian system, it has been the most powerful force to life tens of millions out of poverty, improve health and standard of living and bring development.

Socialism, as practiced in North Korea and Cuba with central planning and ownership is not the answer and clearly failed.

However, within a capitalist system, we obviously should have a safety net and social welfare system to assist those who do fall through the system, as well as rules to keep the free-market system working well.

When we hear people speak of European countries as socialist, that is a falsehood. For example, we should be referring to 'Scandinavian capitalism' because those systems are not socialist at all, having an overwhelmingly private economy with private banking and lending, private housing, etc.

Having a safety net is not socialism, but an integral part of advanced capitalism.
You mean, of course, Social Democrats, aka "Democratic Socialists", who believe in Capitalism regulated for the benefit of all instead of a scant few.

Gotcha.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 07:56 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
The number of wealthy individuals is not the standard for a healthy economy.
When it's increasing rapidly, it is. That means there's MORE opportunity for everyone willing to access it, OPPORTUNITY being the key word. Not everyone utilizes that opportunity, and then they wonder why they're still in a state of financial hardship and struggle.

You can lead a horse to water...
 
Old 07-14-2019, 07:59 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,116 posts, read 4,609,858 times
Reputation: 10578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
A few weeks back I saw my 9 year old Niece and she saw a Trump thing at my house and she said "I hate him". I asked her why and she didn't know why but she does? I wonder where she learned that?
Kids don't always articulate and expound on their viewpoints to detail why they feel a certain way. "I don't know..shrug" isn't all that uncommon with lots of things. But rest assured that they can see the way the Trump speaks and bullies people, mocking disabled people, saying he could start shooting people in the middle of NYC and get away with it, etc. (these were very early on, the extensive and growing list goes on and on and on). They are sharper in picking up on this than adults give them credit for. She is probably confused as to why adults who say they don't like bullies can reward Trump for this behavior as well. This confuses me also and I'm way older than 9.

While I'm not a fan of Hillary Clinton and she definitely has her faults, her campaign ad showing kids watching Trump bully people was spot on, not just with Trump, but how they can sense when another kid or adult is being a jerk. Out of all the positive role models for kids, there are tremendously better choices, including many conservatives with a great love for the positive attributes of capitalism, and who behave themselves as a better example for kids and adults.

As to the main post, schools are often lacking in teaching critical thinking skills, especially in an age- appropriate manner. It's not good when kids who reach the higher grades are unable to do so, and even the lack of basic financial education well into adulthood makes people vulnerable to being taken advantage of by the people who support capitalism without the corresponding ethics that go along with it. Not ethics that take a PH.D to decipher but simple "this is wrong" ethics (as discussed in the next paragraph).

A more rounded education would teach one that ....Capitalism is great because of inspiring innovation, creating tremendous opportunity for people to come up with incredible inventions, etc. that wouldn't exist without it, but not so good when it abuses people (the industrial era when workers were dying because of simple safety protocols not being followed to make a wealthy baron pennies more, and generally the US having a pervasively more unbalanced amount of power with weaker employee protections than other so-called 1st world countries, greedy drug companies quadruple the cost of medicines that keep people alive and people can't afford their medicine because corrupt lawmakers are being paid off by these companies, etc.

Last edited by Jowel; 07-14-2019 at 08:14 AM..
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