Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
My OP was addressing President's Trump's possible 'End Game' for the United States, not for the entire Middle East.
The Middle East will continue, as others have pointed out, to fight among their fanatical religious factions killing each other and anyone that gets in their way until the End of Time! They stubbornly want to live as in Biblical Times, and refuse to be tolerant of and civil with others and come into the 21st Century.
We, the United States, currently may have a WAY OUT of this quagmire that we got ourselves into back when we were dependent on oil. We are now a net-EXPORTER of oil, so the only reason I see that the US remaining in Iraq is to be a buffer between Israel and Saudi Arabia and their extreme religious neighbor, Iran. And that’s not good enough for me. So let’s take the Out that the Iraqi Parliament has just given us, and get the hell outta Dodge and let the Israelis and the Saudis sort it out!
Problem I see right now is that Iran is playing the Long Game, and they will lay low until they have nuclear weapons and delivery systems, which they are feverishly working on right now... and will likely achieve within the year!
This guy has a very astute assessment of what is happening.
If USA leaves Iraq, Iran will have complete reign of influence from Iran to Iraq to Syria. With Russian help, they will build oil pipeline all the way to Mediterranean. This will make American allies like Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Saudi at an economic disadvantage as their oil will need to travel few more thousand miles over Strait of Hormuz. US investment in oil industry of allies is enormous - cant leave just like that
In anticipation of Iran blocking the Strait of Hormuz, Saudi Arabia completed The East-West Pipeline (aka Petroline) with a capacity of 5 million bbl/d, 746 miles across the width of the Arabian Peninsula to the Red Sea. Recently Saudi Arabia announced plans to increase its capacity by 40% within two years.
Other oil exporters in the region (Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, and UAE) are also looking at alternatives to bypass the choke point, such as Iraq which plans to export more oil to Turkey’s port of Ceyhan, and to build new pipelines to ports in Syria, Lebanon and the Petroline in Saudi Arabia.
Please. Ever since 1979 attack on our embassy and hostages (an indisputable act of war) Iran has done nothing but wage war, real and proxy with an end game to totally control the Middle East
Yes, it is true that Iran has sought to be the major power in the region. They want to be the big kid on the block. So? If Rwanda tried to dominate east Africa, do you think we'd send a bunch of troops and ship over there to confront them?
The first Gulf war was fought for one reason - to keep the oil flowing. The second Gulf war was just a continuation of the first. Now that we no longer need their oil, why are we concerned about the Middle East? Why do we have thousands of troops there?
Care to explain to me why all of a sudden they have 2000 Ballistic missles? you don't use those to spread fertilizer. They have one purpose;deliver warheads,usually nuclear. this was one glaring reason the JCPOA was a sham.
Does this sound like a nation standing down from trying to annex the entire middle east? https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/03/i...-islamic-state
In 2009 Iran had an active interest in developing a broad range of ballistic missiles as well as developing a space launch program. Do you think it's reasonable to leave any country without a defense program? Do you think there would have been any negotiation about restricting nuclear capabilities if the agreement included zero defense? My guess would be no. The question is are we better off after Trump pulled out of the JCPOA or were we better off before Trump pulled out of the JCPOA and impulsively killed their number two in the country? What has Iran done since Trump pulled out of the agreement and crippled them financially based on a lie that our allies said was false? Iran was complying with the agreement.
Do you think that Trump did what he did out of some nefarious reason like a high end donor Sheldon Adelson who donated $113 million to the Republican party and who hates Iran? Google Sheldon Adelson hates Iran and you will see articles like Is Sheldon Adelson driving Trump's Middle East policy? Could this be about money vs what is best for our country and stability in the Middle East? "The biggest thing you did for Israel was breaking Iran deal." Was this once again policy for sale to the highest bidder?
Look. The fact is that Iran WAS complying with the deal. This chaos did not exist until Trump pulled out of the deal. It wasn't perfect, but the "great negotiator" should have spun his lying magic like he did to get elected. Did he follow the money instead?
Bin Laden was the mastermind behind 911 and was on the FBI's 10 most wanted list.
Wrong. Had you been alive at that time, you'd know that one of the things people constantly pointed out was that bin Laden was never on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List.
You would also remember your government circulating the Bogus Fatty Bin Laden Video.
Bin Laden stands 6'5" and weighed a frail 165 pounds. He is a Saud, and right-handed and as a devout Muslim, he never wears jewelry.
The man in the video your government repeatedly claimed was bin Laden was 5'8" and pushing 280 pounds, clearly left-handed (since he was signing a document in the video) and adorned with gaudy bling-bling jewelry, not to mention the man was no doubt an Uzbeg.
Sauds are Arabs. Uzbegs are Turks. If you don't understand the different, you need to learn.
You might want to ask yourself why your government would knowingly circulate a false video claiming a man was bin Laden when it was obviously not bin Laden.
When you figure out the answer to that question, you can ask yourself why your government violated federal laws and refused to reconstruct Flight 77 and Flight 91.
Remember TWA Flight 800 that crashed in 1996? That aircraft was reconstructed, because federal law requires it, and it's still sitting in a warehouse in New Jersey.
When you figure out the answer to that question, you can ask yourself why no law enforcement agency in the US ever conducted a criminal investigation for 9-11.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumann Koch
My OP was addressing President's Trump's possible 'End Game' for the United States, not for the entire Middle East.
You are seriously confused. Foreign Policy and Geo-Strategy are not the same thing.
Presidents control Foreign Policy. Bureaucrats, not Presidents, control Geo-Strategy.
Why? It's like chess. If you open with King's Gambit you cannot switch to the English Opening. That's not how it works. Presidents are only around 4-8 years. You cannot change Geo-Strategy every 4-8 years because you wanna. That would cost you $Billions and $Billions and leave you with total chaos and no cogent coherent Geo-Strategy at all, and as your government believes (rightly or wrongly) total chaos in your economy.
What Trump does or does not do doesn't matter because someone ultimately will. Iran's part of the game plan (and always has been).
You are seriously confused. Foreign Policy and Geo-Strategy are not the same thing.
Presidents control Foreign Policy. Bureaucrats, not Presidents, control Geo-Strategy.
Why? It's like chess. If you open with King's Gambit you cannot switch to the English Opening. That's not how it works. Presidents are only around 4-8 years. You cannot change Geo-Strategy every 4-8 years because you wanna. That would cost you $Billions and $Billions and leave you with total chaos and no cogent coherent Geo-Strategy at all, and as your government believes (rightly or wrongly) total chaos in your economy.
What Trump does or does not do doesn't matter because someone ultimately will. Iran's part of the game plan (and always has been).
No, I am not seriously confused. And please - let's keep the juvenile derogatory comments to the low-effort types plaguing these serious posts, shall we.
I understand your point about Geo-Strategy. I would first like to pick out the British Empire for starting this global mess during the period of time they were the World's Policeman. Look at how they screwed everything up dividing India, SE Asia, the Ottoman Empire, and the Middle East. Their total disregard for tribes, culture, and religion is the foundation for almost all of the world's geopolitical ills today.
But now it is what the US does that everyone watches, and as I have mentioned several times, Trump is NOT your typical career politician.
Bureaucrat: 'government official perceived as being concerned with procedural correctness at the expense of people's needs'
Of all the Presidents in my lifetime I think Trump comes the closet to doing what is truly best for the United States and its citizens. And he is steeping on many toes, foreign and domestic, doing things that no previous President would even think of. He has a unique opportunity right now, while in the driver's seat, to make significant changes in the Middle East. But has to do it within a small window of time.
This is exactly what I am trying to discuss in this Thread: what is President Trump's Game Plan for the remainder of his term in office for the role of the United States in the Middle East
So I think it is pretty short-sighted to dismiss President Trump's recent actions (and those yet to come in the next five years of his Presidency), and to believe what he does doesn't matter. Look what GW's actions did!
The question is are we better off after Trump pulled out of the JCPOA or were we better off before Trump pulled out of the JCPOA and impulsively killed their number two in the country? What has Iran done since Trump pulled out of the agreement and crippled them financially based on a lie that our allies said was false? Iran was complying with the agreement.
Look. The fact is that Iran WAS complying with the deal. This chaos did not exist until Trump pulled out of the deal. It wasn't perfect, but the "great negotiator" should have spun his lying magic like he did to get elected. Did he follow the money instead?
Sorry Animal but that is not correct!
Please see my detailed response the last time you brought it up:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumann Koch
Iranian activities prohibited under the JCPOA agreement
Update: Protests Throughout Iran After Downing of Civilian Airliner
Angry crowds flooded the streets of Tehran and other Iranian cities chanting “Death to Liars”, “Death to the Dictator," and "Shameless". Protestors on university campuses reportedly called the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps "incompetent" and "the people's shame." Signs they carried demanded that their country's religious leaders step down after the Iranian government finally admitted to the tragic shooting down of a civilian airliner on January 8th by their military in anticipation of an attack by the United States… which never came, and then trying to cover it up.
What began as mournful emotional vigils for the 176 lives lost on Ukrainian Airlines Flight 752 devolved into outrage and protest against Iran’s fanatical religious regime. Riot police responded with tear gas to break up the demonstrations of Iranians marching with signs demanding the resignation of the Ayatollah.
Could this be the start of an internal revolution to finally overthrow kick-started by Iran’s military blunder?
If so this could be in our best interests in the region. Once again President Trump's restraint in his response to Iran's latest military attacks against US Forces in Iraq has proven to be the proper course. Hopefully it will put extra pressure on Iran to come to the negotiating table. All without starting World War III as many had expected.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Oil Exporters Bypass the Strait of Hormuz
Update: Protests Throughout Iran After Downing of Civilian Airliner
