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Exactly. Any number of Latín American nations have very high out of wedlock rates. A number of European nations are not to far behind either.
LOL...I find it amusing that Colombian would come in talking about an American black men.
Indeed. The irony of it is this. Of the Hispanic people that I've met, 3, that I can confirm, have had a kid out of wedlock. Of those, only one never got married (her child's father walked out on her). Just the same, I can look to the stats and it shows that out of wedlock birth rates are high in Latin America. And you're right, Latin America isn't alone. Alot of European countries have high OOW birth rates. Iceland, Norway, France, are among the highest, around 60% for France, to as high as 70% for Iceland. Greece is the lowest in the EU, barely 10% of births are outside of marriage. Strangely, neighboring Bulgaria has an OOW birth rate of 59%
I don't really find it all that amusing that a Colombian person would talk trash about Black men. More sad that anything. It shows how he felt so high and mighty to come here and talk down on Black Americans. Of course, I also consider there are some Colombians who don't like Blacks. Colombia has some racism of their own.
I perfectly understand what you are talking about, I understand the difference.
For whom?
Where?
Why?
The "talented tenth" (it's far more than a tenth of the Black population though) should be setting the pace. They should be making the rules for what is acceptable and what is not. And certain behaviors need to be ostracized and made shameful
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Then who is going to deal with them?
Make your wild guess.
If some thug/hood rat decides to be a criminal, we have prisons to deal with them.
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If you don't care for them, ( while they ARE part of your ethnic group,) then what do you think American WHITES feel about them?
No one likes thugs and hood rats. No one wants to deal with them or associate with them. And this crosses color lines. I would hope the average person could tell the difference.
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You personally of course wouldn't want to be associated with the "hood rats," you want to be acknowledged as something different. And you probably ARE acknowledged as different by your coworkers/friends/close associates - those who deal with you on professional/personal level.
However, keep in mind that in the eyes of the rest, you are part of the whole ethnic group, and the "hood rats" are a big big part of it, as much as you'd like to think that you have nothing to do with them.
Most Black Americans who are part of the middle and upper class, the professional class, do not want to be viewed in the same vein as the hood rats/thugs. I look at it like this. Just because there are people who will view me the same as "thugs and hood rats" doesn't mean I'm going to claim them. Yes. those persons are Black. We might catch alot of crap as Black people. At the same time, that doesn't mean I need to associate myself with hood rats and their behavior patterns. I can still demand people behave themselves when around me. My rule is simple: Either behave yourself or get out of here. This goes for anyone regardless of race.
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No, not "babysit," but to go and work with YOUR POOR COMMUNITIES, because by your own acknowledgement, "you can be poor and Black and still have some respect and not hurt other people."
So these people are out there, in the mix with the "hood rats," but instead of reaching out to them, you pretend that you are not part of theirs as well, once you've got to certain level of education and wealth.
I can work with poor people. I have no issue with that. It's the underbelly elements I want to avoid. I mentioned that you can be poor and still be respectable for a reason. It was not to talk poorly of poor Black people.
I also mentioned something else. Anyone who wants to do better for themselves, they can join. I also said that it requires shedding hood rat behavior. Sometimes it means those people have to tell those immersed in thug culture "either get your act together or move along". That is why I said "you can be poor and Black and still have some respect and not hurt other people." I'm not trying to speak ill of poor Black people. I know there are poor Blacks who would like to do better for themselves. It's the individuals who insist on behaving on horrible ways that I'm talking about. Not the entire poor.
People who behave like hood rats/thugs are not on my level. I can work with a poor person. I can work with a working class person. I can work with someone who wants to better themselves. I can work with someone who is willing to do better. Those persons are on my level. I can't work with someone who insists on doing things like committing crimes and behaving in a surly way. I cannot work with gang members.
By the way, I never grew up in the ghetto. I grew up the suburbs/rural areas. I'm not wealthy. I'm not poor either. I grew up middle class. I was also the kind of kid who was quite bookish and nerdy. I went to high school with many middle class kids. There were also several kids who adhered to hood rat culture and redneck kids. It was the latter two that bullied me alot. Skateboarders also proved to be some nasty bullies. Let's just say my impression of some latter three weren't that great, in terms of culture.
Many White people aren't much better when it comes to dealing with "trailer park trash" and "redneck". Many Whites look down on those particular kind of Whites. I should know. I've been around Whites who look at certain lower class Whites as "rednecks" and "trailer park trash". And this isn't just with liberals. I've known some upper class White conservatives to think the same way.
The "talented tenth" (it's far more than a tenth of the Black population though) should be setting the pace. They should be making the rules for what is acceptable and what is not. And certain behaviors need to be ostracized and made shameful
If some thug/hood rat decides to be a criminal, we have prisons to deal with them.
No one likes thugs and hood rats. No one wants to deal with them or associate with them. And this crosses color lines. I would hope the average person could tell the difference.
Most Black Americans who are part of the middle and upper class, the professional class, do not want to be viewed in the same vein as the hood rats/thugs. I look at it like this. Just because there are people who will view me the same as "thugs and hood rats" doesn't mean I'm going to claim them. Yes. those persons are Black. We might catch alot of crap as Black people. At the same time, that doesn't mean I need to associate myself with hood rats and their behavior patterns. I can still demand people behave themselves when around me. My rule is simple: Either behave yourself or get out of here. This goes for anyone regardless of race.
I can work with poor people. I have no issue with that. It's the underbelly elements I want to avoid. I mentioned that you can be poor and still be respectable for a reason. It was not to talk poorly of poor Black people.
I also mentioned something else. Anyone who wants to do better for themselves, they can join. I also said that it requires shedding hood rat behavior. Sometimes it means those people have to tell those immersed in thug culture "either get your act together or move along". That is why I said "you can be poor and Black and still have some respect and not hurt other people." I'm not trying to speak ill of poor Black people. I know there are poor Blacks who would like to do better for themselves. It's the individuals who insist on behaving on horrible ways that I'm talking about. Not the entire poor.
People who behave like hood rats/thugs are not on my level. I can work with a poor person. I can work with a working class person. I can work with someone who wants to better themselves. I can work with someone who is willing to do better. Those persons are on my level. I can't work with someone who insists on doing things like committing crimes and behaving in a surly way. I cannot work with gang members.
By the way, I never grew up in the ghetto. I grew up the suburbs/rural areas. I'm not wealthy. I'm not poor either. I grew up middle class. I was also the kind of kid who was quite bookish and nerdy. I went to high school with many middle class kids. There were also several kids who adhered to hood rat culture and redneck kids. It was the latter two that bullied me alot. Skateboarders also proved to be some nasty bullies. Let's just say my impression of some latter three weren't that great, in terms of culture.
Many White people aren't much better when it comes to dealing with "trailer park trash" and "redneck". Many Whites look down on those particular kind of Whites. I should know. I've been around Whites who look at certain lower class Whites as "rednecks" and "trailer park trash". And this isn't just with liberals. I've known some upper class White conservatives to think the same way.
Again - you don't see the forest behind the trees, sorry.
It's not about YOU, your life experience, and what you find agreeable or not.
It's about the BIGGER picture, how AAs are perceived AS A GROUP in the US.
Of course "trailer park trash" is inseparable part of the White America, but PERCENTAGE WISE, in terms of RATIO, it's much smaller within the White community than the "hood rats" type within the AAs community.
And since the White community has to take care of the "trashy whites," ( in terms of helping them with housing, raising children born out of wedlock and all,) they feel that it's getting too much, that they have to shell out not only for them ( that they could handle I suppose,) but for a big chunk of "hood rats" as well.
Again - you don't see the forest behind the trees, sorry.
It's not about YOU, your life experience, and what you find agreeable or not.
It's about the BIGGER picture, how AAs are perceived AS A GROUP in the US.
Of course "trailer park trash" is inseparable part of the White America, but PERCENTAGE WISE, in terms of RATIO, it's much smaller within the White community than the "hood rats" type within the AAs community.
And since the White community has to take care of the "trashy whites," ( in terms of helping them with housing, raising children born out of wedlock and all,) they feel that it's getting too much, that they have to shell out not only for them ( that they could handle I suppose,) but for a big chunk of "hood rats" as well.
And THAT's what makes White America grumbling.
Well here is the deal. The experiences I've had shapes how I view the world. So does the amount of reading I've done in my life. You think I don't know how Black Americans are perceived? I've had to know. I've been called the "N" word to my face, as far back in 5th grade. A few kids threatened to hang me from a noose. I've dealt with situations where someone called the police over something perfectly legal. I'm well aware of it. I've personally dealt with it.
1) How are White people taking care of the "undertow" and "trash" within its population? Last I checked, many Whites don't want to be associated with such types, and are rarely judged by its worst.
2) How are White people taking care of hood rats? Last I checked, we have jails to deal with lawbreakers of any race.
And honestly, many people have been looking down on Blacks and treating Blacks badly from day one. Black people didn't even have a say in whether they wanted to come. They were looked down on during slavery. They were hated even more after slavery, perceived as pests and burdens on society. They were treated as 2nd class citizens. The way I see it, Blacks being perceived poorly is as old as America itself. One of the reasons I no longer care why many are grumbling about Blacks. I just write it off as the same old crap.
One thing to keep in mind is unlike immigrant communities, blacks who are successful get away from their community and never look back.
You will see them use their past as PR, but they will never step foot in the hood.
While I would love to see black billionaires like Michael Jordan, Kanye West, and Oprah give more to poor Black communities, truth is Uncle Sam has sent billions (trillions) to these local communities via welfare and social programs which are largely governed and mismanaged by Democrats.
You can’t welfare and social handout an entire demographic up the social ladder. Like highly educated African immigrants and Asian Americans who proved you don’t need welfare or politicians to prosper, education will be the key but while online learning was suppose to close the educational gaps it only increased it. Turns out people are using Netflix to babysit their kids instead of actual classes.
The black out of wedlock birthdate could very well reach 90% within this decade. What does that mean? It means economic stagnation and social regression for a demographic that would rely on more welfare to survive. I mean these poor black kids don’t even have a chance.
I had my father growing up, and he certainly wasn’t perfect. But he was still around.
This really isn’t a race issue anymore because every group has declining morality and family values which is like a bomb going off in every city in the country. I think blacks led the way but out of circumstances out of their control to a point. Ill conceived liberal programs destroyed already struggling families and robbed black men of their pride..typical liberal thinking destroys everything.
This is true. As a black man, black people don’t grow up saying “I can’t wait to have 5 kids with 5 different mothers and abandon all of them. I can’t wait to get on EBT cards for survival.”
It was simply liberal and democratic policies that rewarded and incentivized this behavior, a cruel irony of unintended consequences by a Democratic political party who blames the other party for black American regression.
If I told you, your own friends were responsible for your failures, you wouldn’t believe it too. Same for the Democrats relationship to blacks. Hell many Blacks refuse to even believe it was our own blacks from rival tribes who sold us into slavery to begin with. One day we will wake up and realize we hold the keys to our own prosperity, not politicians and handouts.
Imagine if Ben Carson relied on welfare and handouts to prosper from poverty, instead of hard work. He would’ve never been a world class neurosurgeon and bestselling author
I find it incredibly stupid that people are blaming high out of wedlock birth rates on welfare. While it can definitely be an enabler, there is something I'm going to bring up. Many people are just irresponsible regardless of the consequences. America's prison population skyrocketed in the 1980s due to the drug epidemic, and very harsh sentence towards drug offenses. However, it was steadily rising during the 1960s and 70s. Alot of offenders locked up during those years were likely committing crimes going back to their adolescent years. This should put their years of birth between 1939 and 1959. The prisoners being locked were more than likely committing crimes are far back as the early 1960s.
One of Chicago's most violent street gangs, the Almighty Black P. Stone Nation, was founded in 1959, by youths in a reform school. It started out as a community organization, but became a violent street gang in 1963.
Something tells me many of those kids might have been born outside of wedlock, or were raised in single parent homes. And this was before the whole "I don't need a man" mantra started taking hold.
This is true. As a black man, black people don’t grow up saying “I can’t wait to have 5 kids with 5 different mothers and abandon all of them. I can’t wait to get on EBT cards for survival.”
It was simply liberal and democratic policies that rewarded and incentivized this behavior, a cruel irony of unintended consequences by a Democratic political party who blames the other party for black American regression.
If I told you, your own friends were responsible for your failures, you wouldn’t believe it too. Same for the Democrats relationship to blacks. Hell many Blacks refuse to even believe it was our own blacks from rival tribes who sold us into slavery to begin with. One day we will wake up and realize we hold the keys to our own prosperity, not politicians and handouts.
Imagine if Ben Carson relied on welfare and handouts to prosper from poverty, instead of hard work. He would’ve never been a world class neurosurgeon and bestselling author
Dude, I'm a Black man and I never grew up that way either. The majority of Black people I grew up with never said "I can't wait to have 5 kids by 5 different babies mamas". Then again, the home I grew up in, I was in a middle class neighborhood. Both parents in the home. Every Black family I knew that lived in my neighborhood had BOTH parents in the home.
Something else. There are more Black people in the middle and upper class today, more Blacks among the professional ranks (in spite of job market discrimination) than back in the 1960s. The number of Black owned businesses have actually grown significantly since 2010.
Furthermore, Black out of wedlock birth rates have been higher than everyone else for decades, going back to the 1930s. It went as high as 40% during the mid 1950s. No welfare state back then. Being on welfare is a choice. Per capita, fewer Whites got on welfare. A better question is this. Why were there some Black women choosing to get government money over having a man provide?
As for "Blacks selling Blacks", tell a Fulani that an Akan person is "his kind", he'll look at you like you're stupid. The Akan live in Ghana. Fulani people come from Nigeria, Senegal, and Guinea. I'm well aware of African tribes capturing and selling people from other tribes. Guess what? For a willing seller, there is a willing buyer. People from places like Spain, Britain, France, Portugal, The Netherlands, etc were looking for slaves to buy. And the buying and selling wasn't the only way. European and Arab slave traders also kidnapped people.
Last edited by green_mariner; 05-22-2020 at 08:18 AM..
Well why don’t we do an experiment? Unwed mothers would continue to get welfare for their existing children, but any babies born after February 2021 (that’s nine months away) would NOT entitle their mothers to additional taxpayer funds. It would require weekly welfare checks (as in well-being) to ensure the children are being decently fed, and if any are not, the mother could be declared “unfit” (can be done quickly if a child’s health is in danger) and placed with a family who could feed him/her.
Let’s see if the OOW birthrate among poor, uneducated women drops as a result.
Well why don’t we do an experiment? Unwed mothers would continue to get welfare for their existing children, but any babies born after February 2021 (that’s nine months away) would NOT entitle their mothers to additional taxpayer funds. It would require weekly welfare checks (as in well-being) to ensure the children are being decently fed, and if any are not, the mother could be declared “unfit” (can be done quickly if a child’s health is in danger) and placed with a family who could feed him/her.
Let’s see if the OOW birthrate among poor, uneducated women drops as a result.
One thing to consider. The out of wedlock birth rate also includes working women. I know a few women who have had kids out of wedlock. All of them have jobs.
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