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Aren't you in Texas? For some odd reason that's what I thought.
New York is a small town in a lot of ways. 3,000 people dying from the metro area X everyone they were related to or knew--yes, of course most people around here know someone who died. 700 or so of them were from NJ, and just about every town in north Jersey has some kind of memorial to their dead, the most notable being Middletown, which lost 37. Do you really think these towns put up memorials to people who never existed?
I grew up, and spent most of my life on the east coast (40 years) ... and I've been to the city so many times, I couldn't quantify it really. So that's relevant to conversation only as an FYI.
The meat of the issues I have with certain individual claims made over the internet by virtual strangers is that anyone can claim anything ... so I evaluate claims, rather than simply accept them at face value. And part of that process involves credibility, not just with an individual statement, but in the collection or preponderance of statements and claims made by that individual. And I've got to tell you, there are several of you that come up drastically short on my credibility meter.
For example, one of you has claimed to have lost 7 family members, to include the 93 WTC event. Is that possible? Sure .. it's possible ... but it's a rather remote possibility, given that only 6 people died in 93. Certainly, such a claim is subject to question, though just because of the odds ... that's not enough for me to dismiss it out-of-hand. So, I have to look at other claims and responses from that individual, and measure that too ... in order to place a credibility value. And when such a person who claims such a loss ... and follows up a challenge to it with casual sarcasm like "well what were those big shiny things in the sky that day" ... this pegs my BS meter to the point of breaking. You see, this is not an appropriate response coming from someone who is legit ... in my opinion. There are other telltale signs that I'll keep to myself.
You, in particular, more frequently present measured claims, and feasible arguments than the others I'm referring to, though you are not immune to jumping off into the deep end of the BS pool yourself. And you do so here.
The claim that "NYC is like a small town in many ways" is a stretch for even the most vivid imagination .... bordering preposterous. The reality is, you could lose track of your best friend, or close relative in NYC ... and without a phone number or forwarding address, you might never see them again in your lifetime. Being the largest city in the United States ... well over twice the population of Los Angeles, and 4 times the size of Chicago and Houston Texas (# 3 and 4 on the largest cities list) the "small town in a number of ways" claim, to be honest, simply doesn't pass the smell test. The accompanying insinuation that one would be hard pressed to find someone in the NY-NJ and surrounding areas that didn't personally know someone that died on 911 is frankly, absurd, and doesn't add to your credibility profile, in my view.
Now, more to the point ... I've never suggested that 911 didn't result in a tragic loss of life ... there is no denying that people died. Yet at the same time, the numbers claimed are highly questionable, and many of the alleged victims memorialized are dubious, to say the least, with too many clear signs of fabrication. Coupled with those claimed to have died on board the impacting airliners, which I firmly contend is an absolute, 100% fraud, it is impossible to gauge the actual magnitude. Whether the numbers are 3000 or 300 really isn't important to anyone who actually did lose a loved one ... as even a single loss is a personal tragedy, and my sympathies go out to anyone so affected.
And this is the real issue in front of us ... it is out of common respect for those people that were murdered, that every one of us should feel compelled to demand nothing less than the absolute, unvarnished truth relative to the circumstances of their murder and those responsible ... whatever that might reveal, be it complicity ... negligence ... dereliction of duty ... or malfeasance. So one need not be of the opinion that this was an "inside job" carried out entirely by certain factions within our own government to recognize that there is a cover-up of the truth. And I find it appalling that any American would fail to demand the whole truth, for whatever reason might motivate them.
Now, for those who claim that we have the full story ... and that there are no unanswered questions, these people fall into only one of a few categories ... willfully ignorant ... thoroughly gullible ... or absolutely complicit before or after the fact.
Those of us who possess the ability to critically analyze, and apply reason and common sense, immediately recognize that the "official conspiracy theory" doesn't hold a drop of water, and the majority of effort has been concentrated on covering up the truth, rather than revealing it. This is a crime unto itself, and is ongoing ... and must stop.
Last edited by GuyNTexas; 05-25-2011 at 08:39 AM..
OK then my only claim is...I lost no one <that I know of > or know anyone that died in 93 or 01 <again that I know of> So what you are saying is THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE ? My question is... is there 1 simple truth or is the whole thing so large that one truth can't possibly cover everything that happened. I basically believe the official story, but I am sure that the Govt. is not telling or showing everything they know <kind of like the dead Osama pictures> so as not to inflame the public. Does the public have to know every gory little detail? Is that a right? All I know is a month after the attack I and my A team were on our way to strange exotic lands to meet strange exotic people and kill them..Sua Sponte
OK then my only claim is...I lost no one <that I know of > or know anyone that died in 93 or 01 <again that I know of> So what you are saying is THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE ? My question is... is there 1 simple truth or is the whole thing so large that one truth can't possibly cover everything that happened. I basically believe the official story, but I am sure that the Govt. is not telling or showing everything they know <kind of like the dead Osama pictures> so as not to inflame the public. Does the public have to know every gory little detail? Is that a right? All I know is a month after the attack I and my A team were on our way to strange exotic lands to meet strange exotic people and kill them..Sua Sponte
You were manipulated by a Government slander team.
Under what circumstances would you kill yourself, Sua Sponte?
Why wouldn't you consider yourself to be a less desirable person than the slandered you went off to kill?
Is there any difference in your world between liars and truthers?
OK then my only claim is...I lost no one <that I know of > or know anyone that died in 93 or 01 <again that I know of> So what you are saying is THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE ? My question is... is there 1 simple truth or is the whole thing so large that one truth can't possibly cover everything that happened. I basically believe the official story, but I am sure that the Govt. is not telling or showing everything they know <kind of like the dead Osama pictures> so as not to inflame the public. Does the public have to know every gory little detail? Is that a right? All I know is a month after the attack I and my A team were on our way to strange exotic lands to meet strange exotic people and kill them..Sua Sponte
Perhaps the better question would be ... why do you believe the official story, and why so much so that you feel traveling to strange exotic lands and killing it's people is a just cause?
What if those exotic people you are killing did nothing to deserve death, and are victims of your lack of awareness?
(PS: That's really the same question Ergohead was asking ... in different terms ... and believe me ... ergo is FAR from clueless ... this person says more in 4 lines than most people can manage in 4 large paragraphs.)
DifferentDumber
I am glad your tin hat is firmly on in place, but alas on one point you are correct the building was pulverized... by an aluminum Boeing 767 traveling at 500 miles an hour into a building that had at the time a 90% occupancy rate, and anything that can pulverize a building can pulverize all the incidentals and people that are in the building. If the alleged house fire was caused by a jumbo jet crashing into it, I wouldn't expect to find anything at all. "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" ~Sherlock Holmes. Notice Sherlock Holmes is a fictional character in just like your theories a fictional work. But the saddest point of all is you havn't eliminated anything that actually happened all you and you fellow whackos have done is obfuscate the obvious.
If you had even the tiniest bit of knowledge about the subject, you'd realize this 500 MPH claim is the first proof of a fraud. The facts are ... and any pilot will tell you straight out ... you cannot fly a commercial airliner like a 767 at near sea level altitudes at 500 MPH ... it's impossible to reach those speeds except in a high speed dive ... impossible to control ... and the airframe would tear apart. It's called VMO ..(velocity max operating).
One pilot used an analogy .... to believe the claimed maneuvers on 911 ... you'd have to believe that a kid who just got his drivers license entered the Grande Prix race, and set a lap speed record .... in a minivan.
In a rather interesting interview, a commercial airline flight instructor who certifies commercial pilots in a 737 Simulator, gathered several seasoned veteran airline pilots (while air traffic was grounded after 911) and set up NYC in the sim. They each tried to reproduce the events alleged ... and guess what? Not a single one could even control the aircraft at those speeds, and none of them could successfully hit the Towers at lower ... VMO of 360. And, that's with a more maneuverable 737. The only way they were able to hit the towers was to slow down to final approach landing speeds, and even then, they found it difficult to do.
But of course, you believe Arab novices hit the bulls eye at 500 MPH (reported as 550-580) three times, each on their first try, doing what seasoned pilots say is impossible, all while exceeding the VMO limits of the aircraft by over 150 knots (over 30%).
Here is a pilot that actually has flown both flight 175 & 93 aircraft, and he says he couldn't do it ... and he's absolutely certain Arab terrorists couldn't.
I guess he is just "dumber" too? Right? Tell us how dumb this veteran pilot is, and how much smarter you are.
I've got bad news for you .... you've been "punked" so badly, and you have absolutely no awareness of it. None! Not even a clue. It's sad really ... like watching a handicapped person be made fun of ... it's not funny at all. And there you are ... calling other people stupid when they try to "clue you in". That's the epitome of stupid.
Now the rational, semi-intelligent response to such information would be ... "wow ... I didn't know that. I guess I'd better look at this a little closer". NOT ... "oh that pilot is just dumb".
Last edited by GuyNTexas; 05-26-2011 at 08:37 AM..
If you had even the tiniest bit of knowledge about the subject, you'd realize this 500 MPH claim is the first proof of a fraud. The facts are ... and any pilot will tell you straight out ... you cannot fly a commercial airliner like a 767 at near sea level altitudes at 500 MPH ... it's impossible to reach those speeds except in a high speed dive ... impossible to control ... and the airframe would tear apart. It's called VMO ..(velocity max operating).
One pilot used an analogy .... to believe the claimed maneuvers on 911 ... you'd have to believe that a kid who just got his drivers license entered the Grande Prix race, and set a lap speed record .... in a minivan.
In a rather interesting interview, a commercial airline flight instructor who certifies commercial pilots in a 737 Simulator, gathered several seasoned veteran airline pilots (while air traffic was grounded after 911) and set up NYC in the sim. They each tried to reproduce the events alleged ... and guess what? Not a single one could even control the aircraft at those speeds, and none of them could successfully hit the Towers at lower ... VMO of 360. And, that's with a more maneuverable 737. The only way they were able to hit the towers was to slow down to final approach landing speeds, and even then, they found it difficult to do.
But of course, you believe Arab novices hit the bulls eye at 500 MPH (reported as 550-580) three times, each on their first try, doing what seasoned pilots say is impossible, all while exceeding the VMO limits of the aircraft by over 150 knots (over 30%).
Here is a pilot that actually has flown both flight 175 & 93 aircraft, and he says he couldn't do it ... and he's absolutely certain Arab terrorists couldn't.
I guess he is just "dumber" too? Right? Tell us how dumb this veteran pilot is, and how much smarter you are.
I've got bad news for you .... you've been "punked" so badly, and you have absolutely no awareness of it. None! Not even a clue. It's sad really ... like watching a handicapped person be made fun of ... it's not funny at all. And there you are ... calling other people stupid when they try to "clue you in". That's the epitome of stupid.
Now the rational, semi-intelligent response to such information would be ... "wow ... I didn't know that. I guess I'd better look at this a little closer". NOT ... "oh that pilot is just dumb".
I always love the videos that start with the spooky music in the background....so scary that you have no choice but to believe....
You continue to diminish the credibility of your posts with gross exaggeration and embellishment. Yes, it does seem a long shot that these novice pilots hit the towers first try without an ILS to lock onto and autopilot control. But why then go on to state that seasoned airline pilots would find it difficult to hit the towers at landing approach speed? That casts doubt on your entire argument and shouts an agenda that may or may not coincide with truth seeking.
In the absence of high cross-winds (and I believe NY weather was reported to be calm and clear as a bell that day), hitting the towers would be a walk in the park at landing approach speed for a veteran pilot. And certainly doable in calm conditions at higher speed....with a graduating likelihood of a miss with increasing speed.
I always love the videos that start with the spooky music in the background....so scary that you have no choice but to believe....
You continue to diminish the credibility of your posts with gross exaggeration and embellishment. Yes, it does seem a long shot that these novice pilots hit the towers first try without an ILS to lock onto and autopilot control. But why then go on to state that seasoned airline pilots would find it difficult to hit the towers at landing approach speed? That casts doubt on your entire argument and shouts an agenda that may or may not coincide with truth seeking.
No, not a long shot ... freaking impossible .... as in wings tearing off the freaking aircraft impossible. That's what the man was saying when he said the plane would fall out of the sky.
As for "my" gross exaggerations and embellishments ... this is not my claim Pal, that was the pilots themselves. Now, I'm not a Pilot, but I do understand issues when they are explained to me. And I will defer to the pilot's expertise rather than my non-pilot perceptions as factual (unless you are a commercial jet pilot and can offer a legitimate counter explanation?). And the way it was explained is that traveling and maintaining a steady straight line low altitude flight path in the very dense air of those altitudes is not like driving a bloody car .. OK ... it can be mildly to extremely difficult? By contrast, Jets coming in for a landing are on a descending path ... in essence, all jet aircraft landings are controlled crashes, with any error in that angle and rate of descent potentially catastrophic. But back to the steady low altitude flight ... most people have experienced the turbulence that can occur on clear blue sky days (You can't see air or it's currents) ... and in this low altitude dense air, flying of large jets very difficult, with stalls being a serious concern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95
In the absence of high cross-winds (and I believe NY weather was reported to be calm and clear as a bell that day), hitting the towers would be a walk in the park at landing approach speed for a veteran pilot. And certainly doable in calm conditions at higher speed....with a graduating likelihood of a miss with increasing speed.
Spoken like a true expert that thinks flying jets are like driving their wife's minivan. Of course you know more about the matter than the veteran airline pilots that fly them for a living ... is that what you are saying "Crown Vic" ?
I've explained some of the differences and challenges, but to highlight your complete lack of knowledge on the matter, pilots would laugh at you for your ridiculous insinuation that turbulence, crosswinds, drafts and micro bursts have anything whatsoever to do with weather or the existence or lack of clouds. The fact is ... you're more likely to experience turbulent air when it is clear, rather than when it is cloudy because clouds tend not to form or stick around long in turbulent air currents ... but this is really a side point that most anyone who has ever been simply a passenger on a jet aircraft would already be familiar with, particularly the turbulence often experienced on clear days when planes are on final approach. Wings rocking and shaking ... it's turbulent air ... and the air becoming much denser as altitude declines.
Like I said ... I'll defer to the expertise of the pilots ... and you can believe you.
Last edited by GuyNTexas; 05-26-2011 at 08:44 PM..
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For some odd reason that's what I thought.
I always love the videos that start with the spooky music in the background....so scary that you have no choice but to believe....
