Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
If a parent loses an infant vs a toddler vs an adolescent vs a young adult vs a middle-age adult do you also quantify those losses by development stage?
Do you find it ridiculous if a parent has a funeral for an infant son with a tiny baby casket vs a 55-year-old son in an adult casket?
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If that's what they want to do, I'll support that. Some people name the babies they miscarried and have funerals for them. My aunt had a miscarriage in the toilet and flushed it.
Everyone has a different take on this. The point is, no one would ever, ever force you to have an abortion. But you want to force motherhood on other women. These are kids who aren't wanted. And no child is going to thank you for letting him or her be born to a woman who doesn't want them.
We don't already have enough abused and emotionally wounded children in this world already? Many of whom were born to parents who claimed they wanted them in the first place? What kind of a person wants to commit a child to that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_
As you are clearly dissembling the percentage might be interesting to you.
The nominal truth is something important that occurs 450,000-600,000x per year is not rare.
FWIIW there are a little over 3.5 million births per year in The US. So "rare" does not work even per your attempt.
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I took the 525,000 as sort of a middle number. Divided by 3.5 million gives a 15% abortion rate. I guess you'd have to decide whether 15% is a lot or not.
But here's another number for
Informed Consent. Condom failure is 3%.
"The provisional number of births for the United States in 2020 was 3,605,201, down 4% from 2019."
So if we figure .03 x 3,605,201 , we get 108,156 pregnancies from condom failure alone, if every man used a condom.
That there's a lot of pregnancies from a form of birth control that everyone thinks will reduce both pregnancies and abortion.
As to that 525,000 number for abortions (remember, middle number)? That's one hell of a lot of kids to bring into the world who may be abused and neglected. That's more than doubling the number of children we have in foster care right now, many of whom age out of the foster care system out to living on the street, selling drugs and being prostitutes to survive. How are we supposed to pay for the ones who end up in in prison, commit crimes, and will probably go on to abuse their own kids?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha
I see, so we must allow state sponsored murder of children, or else the mothers will be forced to kill their babies by themselves.  Hmm, so women have not killed their babies when abortions were legal? |
Maybe that has more to do with lack of access to decent health care than it does to abortion and maybe it's because we have women who have no access to mental health care and so end up drowning their kids in a tub. Or teen girls who have been denied access to Plan B or an abortion because the state won't let them have either without their parents' permission. Maybe we're talking about a woman who is being abused by her husband and was threatened if she got an abortion.
Here's something for you:
"Source: National Vital Statistics System – Mortality Data (2020) via CDC WONDER
All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 45,222
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.7
Why aren't we focusing on these preventable deaths instead of abortions?
Then there's this:
https://www.geneticsandsociety.org/article/17-million-human-embryos-created-ivf-thrown-away
Why isn't anyone talking about this?
I have a partial answer. I think it has to do with women and sex. If a woman is having sex to have a baby, she's considered the epitome of womanhood. If a woman has recreational sex and doesn't want a baby, she's a w***e and the whole abortion thing is merely a camouflage to put women under the control of men (or other vindictive women) and keep her there.
Tell me how wrong I am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
No one has EVER stated abortions never happened. You are arguing a point that doesn't exist.
Unless you think there were 600,000+ abortions in the US in 1928? Because some posters when they state, oh abortions occurred thousands of years ago ... what, you think the cave people spent their time aborting each others babies? Does that make sense at all???
They didn't know how to get food ... but dang nabbit they knew how to ABORT!!!! I mean, really. What idiocy.
Oh and such a misogynistic story, the man roaming around killing the babies. Weren't women horribly OFFENDED BY THAT?!?!?
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Just as no one ever stated that pregnancies didn't occur while people use birth control, but no one seems to believe me on that, either.
You know, all you have to do is read the book. How would I know if people were offended? The book was written in the 40s. Maybe you can do a little research and find out. Speaking of research, google is your friend:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee
And?
Please show in your link where 'pro-life people in OK are upset because the new OK law that was signed today doesn't ban self-induced abortions'.
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You're upset. Case closed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee
Why?
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Because your hangup is abortion. Abortion is what happens to a pregnant woman who doesn't want a baby. Again, unless you are trying to differentiate between the "good women" who correctly use birth control and the "bad women" who don't use any or misuse what they have, there's no reason to give a happy rat's ass how the woman got pregnant as long as in your world, she doesn't have an abortion.
No matter what you do, even if the entire female gender of the world takes birth control and takes it correctly, there will always be one woman who gets pregnant anyway and doesn't want to be pregnant, doesn't want to give birth, and doesn't want to be a mother. At some point in time, you're going to have to learn to deal with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee
You told me to 'gamble away with my own life"...meanwhile, you're intentionally ignoring that those who have abortions are gambling away with more than just their own lives.
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To repeat myself, the risk of giving birth is 33% greater than having an abortion. I personally don't believe the fetus is a child until it's born. That's
my personal belief. But why I have to run the greater risk to give birth to something I don't believe is immoral to abort just because if offends your personal belief or personal opinion, I have no idea.
If it's something you think God wants you to do, that's just too bad. When you go from "God wants to make me do something" to "God wants me to make
you do something", you're crossing the line.
Lots of people from lots of weird religions would like us all to do the weird things they do and the majority of them are absolutely positive they and only they are the mouthpieces for God. So if yours is a religious reason, it doesn't mean squat to me.
Other than that, the only other reason you have is that it's
your personal belief. Hey, we're all allowed to have personal opinions. What we aren't allowed is to foist them onto other people. Now, if I were forcing every pregnant woman to have an abortion, you would have a good reason to complain. But I'm not.
I'm letting you do exactly as you please with the exception of running my life or trying to dictate to me your beliefs. And if that frustrates you or causes you pain, I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. Grow up and get over it. Because no one on this earth or in heaven died and made you the boss over everyone. And if you continue to try to make other people do what you think they should do, don't be surprised if they tell you what I tell you: take a hike.
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