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Ukraine may feel the same way I do about my personal security - it is up to me, and not much help can be expected.
After all the F-16s and sophisticated tanks and air defense devices are delivered Ukraine may feel it is their responsibility to maintain them and just assume Russia will be back at some point. There may even exist a permanent sort of low-level warfare in Ukraine the way there is in Israel.
This is going to be expensive. Ukraine will have to make a great many internal changes if they are to thrive in the post war world. They will need to become productive far beyond what they reported in previous times.
To state the obvious: nations are not individual people. They can't afford to act like a freedom-loving person who already enjoys the protection of a wealthy state military. Ukraine needs to do what it must to ensure their survival against a large, bullying neighbor, or gradually be ground down to dust. In that respect they are a lot like Israel. They will need the security provided by a powerful force, either with their own nuclear weapons or those of NATO.
To state the obvious: nations are not individual people. They can't afford to act like a freedom-loving person who already enjoys the protection of a wealthy state military. Ukraine needs to do what it must to ensure their survival against a large, bullying neighbor, or gradually be ground down to dust. In that respect they are a lot like Israel. They will need the security provided by a powerful force, either with their own nuclear weapons or those of NATO.
Russia lost in Afghanistan. They will lose in Ukraine too.
Russian tank column destroyed by land mines, artillery, and cluster munitions. One soldier appeared to survive and ran away before the cluster munitions hit.
Yes, some concession of territory may be necessary to end the war, but Ukraine will require security guarantees as well. What before was impossible, Ukraine joining NATO, may now be required to prevent Putin from repeating the war 5-10 years from now. Neither side will be happy with that outcome, but that's how compromises are made.
Yeah, something like that may be the only workable solution.
Yes, some concession of territory may be necessary to end the war, but Ukraine will require security guarantees as well. What before was impossible, Ukraine joining NATO, may now be required to prevent Putin from repeating the war 5-10 years from now. Neither side will be happy with that outcome, but that's how compromises are made.
It was reported by the WaPo that a NATO official has said there are rumblings that there are early whispers that the war should perhaps end with a peace deal that Ukraine gets into NATO and Russia keeps the ethnic Russian majority areas it currently holds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2
I don't see Russia willingly giving up Crimea. That seems like the logical trade. It is the one region that is majority ethnic Russian.
The WaPo reported that US intelligence officials believe that Russia is sincere about using tactical nukes to defend Crimea from invasion.
It isn't the only part of Ukraine that is majority ethnic Russian though.
The US does not share the same goal as Ukraine. How long will we write checks for Ukraine to pursue a policy that we believe is not good?
Ukraine's official policy is to win back all territory including Crimea. Russia is clear it would use nukes to defend Crimea and US officials have said they believe Russia would do so.
If we're willing to fund Ukraine's goals we're saying we're willing to risk nuclear war at a very slow slogging expensive in lives and money offensive.
Otherwise we need Ukraine to get on our page to our goal of no more Russian advance and a partial regain of lost territory if that is what it is now.
Russia is bad, but the US helped provoke this back in 2014 and refused to negotiate with Russia in the lead up to it.
The US got bogged down in Vietnam and Afghanistan. Are we willing to commit longterm to a war that is inflationary?
US State Dept. Claims we do not encourage or want Ukraine to attack Moscow with drones.
Why are we continually funding it then?
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