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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 196 39.44%
No 252 50.70%
Unsure 49 9.86%
Voters: 497. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-28-2024, 08:23 AM
 
2,372 posts, read 992,429 times
Reputation: 1440

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Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
I am 100% spot on with Eisenhower.



https://teachingamericanhistory.org/...trial-complex/

Look at how far down the Orwellian rabbit hole this board has dove.

Any dissent must be from a Putin bot. No one should question the military industrial complex narrative.

Any dissent can be dismissed off hand. No one should question the military industrial complex narrative.

Simultaneously Russia is a weak clown show on the verge of collapse, but they are ready to take on logistically tougher and militarily stronger NATO countries. Either way, both conflicting and rotating views mean don't question the military industrial complex narrative.

Simultaneously NATO has superior weapons and trainings that will change the war for Ukraine AND Russia is a grave threat to NATO that is ready to take them on head to head. Either way, bith conflicting and rotational views mean don't question the military industrial complex narrative.

You'll be familiar with this one, Denys the YouTuber tells an obvious BS about Ukraine amphibiously invading Crimea, it's so obviously BS, but Denys can't be questioned, so it must be a "false flag" to dupe Putin and his generals who must hang on Denys the youtuber's every word to fool them into misallocating troops!

I am told only people who support the military industrial complex are real patriots and I respond with a 100% accurately cited Eisenhower's warning, but the military industrial complex can't be criticized so we must magically pretend Eisenhower really meant something else.

Stop it.

Come to your senses.

Regain control.

Think.
Parenti:
Quote:
In the United States, for over a hundred years, the ruling interests tirelessly propagated anticommunism among the populace, until it became more like a religious orthodoxy than a political analysis.
During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence.
If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intran*sigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard.
By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative.
If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology.
If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom.
A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.
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Old 02-28-2024, 08:38 AM
 
2,372 posts, read 992,429 times
Reputation: 1440
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Ukraine signed security agreements with Italy and Canada. Italy's PM, Giorgia Meloni, is a hard right-wing politician. Canada's Trudeau is a liberal. As different as they are, both see Russia's invasion of Ukraine a threat to world peace.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ne-2024-02-24/
The biggest threat to world peace is the US. This is undebatable.
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Old 02-28-2024, 08:49 AM
 
5,090 posts, read 2,771,272 times
Reputation: 6961
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman0war View Post
Is this an admission that Ukraine are losing?

I have to presume the leaders of these western countries know somethings that we do not.
Such as weapon orders & deliveries timelines, Ukraine troop numbers and recruits/training numbers and timelines, buildup of Russian troops etc.

They are showing clear signs of panic.
Yes, definitely. The Ukrainian military has had personnel and ammunition shortages for awhile now. This is now making itself felt on the battlefield. Ukraine is unravelling before our eyes as the Russians are speeding up their offensive on all fronts. And in Washington, London, and the other Western capitals . . . yes, serious panic.
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Old 02-28-2024, 09:00 AM
 
2,062 posts, read 1,341,962 times
Reputation: 5130
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesclues5 View Post
I didn't know this was still up for debate.
Everyone knows the US involvement in the 2014 coup.
There was no coup in 2014.
The changes in government followed Ukraine's constitution.
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Old 02-28-2024, 09:21 AM
 
1,285 posts, read 597,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
There was no coup in 2014.
The changes in government followed Ukraine's constitution.
No they didn't. They didn't have quorum so changed the constitution anyway.
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Old 02-28-2024, 10:31 AM
 
5,090 posts, read 2,771,272 times
Reputation: 6961
More complications to the Ukraine-Russia conflict. Transnistria.

https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-i...nment-worsens/
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Old 02-28-2024, 10:41 AM
 
8,186 posts, read 3,741,531 times
Reputation: 2760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
There was no coup in 2014.
The changes in government followed Ukraine's constitution.
No.

"... However, it is not clear that the hasty February 22 vote upholds constitutional guidelines, which call for a review of the case by Ukraine's Constitutional Court and a three-fourths majority vote by the Verkhovna Rada -- i.e., 338 lawmakers. "

https://www.rferl.org/a/was-yanukovy.../25274346.html


P.S. Not to mention the elephant in the room - there was violence in the streets so that obviously affects any vote. Who knows, perhaps many of the lawmakers recalled the events of December 25, 1989 in a certain neighboring country

Last edited by serger; 02-28-2024 at 10:53 AM..
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Old 02-28-2024, 11:32 AM
 
8,961 posts, read 11,839,516 times
Reputation: 10879
I can't believe I am defending Macron. He never said France wants to send troops to Ukraine. He said it is an option on the table. That, to me, makes Macron a stronger leader than other NATO heads who are so quick to in effect say to Putin, "please keep killing people in Ukraine; we will never send troops in to stop you." These folks give away their hands to Putin.

Talk about being weak.
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Old 02-28-2024, 12:06 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,682 posts, read 17,457,678 times
Reputation: 37504
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesclues5 View Post
Yup, all we need is an inflated threat and boogeymen, like China.
DANG! Bluesclues and I got on the same page!
I am ecstatic, Y'all. There is hope.


China is a fraud who is falling apart as we speak. It takes a long time for countries to fall apart, so we'll get to see this slow motion train wreck for years to come.
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Old 02-28-2024, 01:58 PM
 
1,285 posts, read 597,001 times
Reputation: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
I can't believe I am defending Macron. He never said France wants to send troops to Ukraine. He said it is an option on the table. That, to me, makes Macron a stronger leader than other NATO heads who are so quick to in effect say to Putin, "please keep killing people in Ukraine; we will never send troops in to stop you." These folks give away their hands to Putin.

Talk about being weak.
I have read it was an unscheduled meeting (in other words an emergency meeting). Macron doubtless was kite-flying the idea of putting boots on the ground inside Ukraine, and despite all the rabid anti-russian leaders present, the idea was slapped down.
Kind of seems like he's loosing his head here.
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