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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.50%
No 245 50.94%
Unsure 46 9.56%
Voters: 481. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-08-2022, 06:03 PM
 
1,651 posts, read 867,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ticking View Post
I agree with the first part of what you said, the bolded part no. I think the 'because' is if we can degrade Russian military by proxy, it will create more of an opening for the US to attack elsewhere (Like Syria) without as big a counterbalance to stop us. We would like to spread our interests/influence (forcefully if necessary) with less interference from major powers.
I don't think it will work in terms of preventing Russia from taking the parts of Ukraine they want, because of Russia's willingness to go all in, which will eventually mean any means necessary. Regardless of what we say/indicate, I simply don't think the US will go to that length. At this time, for our own purposes, we need to convincingly project that sentiment though in order to keep Ukrainians fighting and damaging Russians. At this time, it appears to be working.
You're not going to decimate an army beyond repair. Just like the so called Russian economic collapse, that is just wishful thinking at this point. If the Ukrainians are willing to sustain massive losses and tear their country apart all to be used by the U.S. and NATO in a great political scheme, then let them. Ignorance is no longer a defense.
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Old 09-08-2022, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,729,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
You're not going to decimate an army beyond repair. Just like the so called Russian economic collapse, that is just wishful thinking at this point. If the Ukrainians are willing to sustain massive losses and tear their country apart all to be used by the U.S. and NATO in a great political scheme, then let them. Ignorance is no longer a defense.
The Ukrainians are fighting for their very existence and its showing. They have been able to rotate their battlefield units which included under trained territorial defense units with fresh units trained on western weaponry...Russia cannot rotate their troops right now. That's why the Kharkiv offensive shocked everybody..the Russians were unprepared and melted upon contact. Russia is showing signs of culmination in the field and Ukraine has taken the initiative. Most importantly as of right now the Ukrainian offensive is beating expectations which will shore up western support moving forward.
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Old 09-08-2022, 06:13 PM
 
1,870 posts, read 844,665 times
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so, who's winning?
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Old 09-08-2022, 06:18 PM
 
Location: South of Heaven
7,928 posts, read 3,473,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b29510 View Post
so, who's winning?
Tough to tell. I for one find it hard to believe a single thing anyone from either side is saying. This war is being fought as much with lies as it is with bullets.
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Old 09-08-2022, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
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Originally Posted by b29510 View Post
so, who's winning?
With these advances Ukraine is winning the information war and has taken momentum. The advance in Kharkiv surprised everybody including the Ukrainians...it exposes the condition of Russia's forces, they are just literally running away. I'm sure Russia will attempt counter attacks but where....Kherson or Kharkiv.

https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/statu...26404675272708
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Old 09-08-2022, 06:31 PM
 
1,651 posts, read 867,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
The Ukrainians are fighting for their very existence and its showing. They have been able to rotate their battlefield units which included under trained territorial defense units with fresh units trained on western weaponry...Russia cannot rotate their troops right now. That's why the Kharkiv offensive shocked everybody..the Russians were unprepared and melted upon contact. Russia is showing signs of culmination in the field and Ukraine has taken the initiative. Most importantly as of right now the Ukrainian offensive is beating expectations which will shore up western support moving forward.
What were the expectations? It seems like at this point that anything is a Ukrainian victory. There are no expectations, just hope for the best. They are not fighting at this point for their existence. They are fighting for the hope of recapturing lost territory. There is a difference. I do wonder how long they can sustain a 5 to 1 solider loss, and that was just to get a few small villages, imagine the death toll in trying to take out a city. Such a death toll doesn't sound like melting away by the Russian forces.
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Old 09-08-2022, 06:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I think we are just not communicating well because you just basically said what I was saying. Russia having to sell at a discount instead of a good price for some future time period is not a good thing for them.

Oh well. That's down the road and Russia has far bigger problems right now than future oil sale prices.
No I understood. Russia is selling at a discount, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Selling at a lower price but growing your market share balances things out. Also, so long as the discounted price doesn't fall below the price to produce a barrel of oil, they can go for a very long time.
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Old 09-08-2022, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,729,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
What were the expectations? It seems like at this point that anything is a Ukrainian victory. There are no expectations, just hope for the best. They are not fighting at this point for their existence. They are fighting for the hope of recapturing lost territory. There is a difference. I do wonder how long they can sustain a 5 to 1 solider loss, and that was just to get a few small villages, imagine the death toll in trying to take out a city. Such a death toll doesn't sound like melting away by the Russian forces.
You really believe that there is a 5 to 1 soldier loss throughout this campaign??....I don't even think Russian propaganda makes that claim...or anything close to it. The Wapo article was published before the main thrust of the offensive was launched....since then Ukraine has been on the attack and taken back over 400 sq km...by conservative estimates. Taking back that much land this quickly is outperforming expectations. I wonder what the soldier loss ratio is right now??
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Old 09-08-2022, 06:55 PM
 
78,423 posts, read 60,613,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
No I understood. Russia is selling at a discount, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Selling at a lower price but growing your market share balances things out. Also, so long as the discounted price doesn't fall below the price to produce a barrel of oil, they can go for a very long time.
I don't disagree with any of that. However, in terms of long term prognosis, that's less money that you otherwise would have gotten.
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Old 09-08-2022, 06:59 PM
 
78,423 posts, read 60,613,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
You're not going to decimate an army beyond repair. Just like the so called Russian economic collapse, that is just wishful thinking at this point. If the Ukrainians are willing to sustain massive losses and tear their country apart all to be used by the U.S. and NATO in a great political scheme, then let them. Ignorance is no longer a defense.
Lol...just lol....it's all an attack on Russia!

The grab of the Crimea, the attempt to grab Kyiv was all just um...a self defense pre-emptive attack.

Hillarity.

Regardless, none of that matters. No doubt you will have glorious victory after victory no matter what.
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