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I think Trump having those documents is as bad as, or worse than Watergate. At least Nixon had the courage to resign and go home. He wanted to keep his tapes private and lost that fight. That precedent gives the FBI the right to go after Trump for stolen documents.
Nixon did a lot more than simply try to keep his tapes private. Nixon had no choice but resign. They had the votes to remove him. Impeachment is a political process not a legal process.
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Originally Posted by ansible90
As to the hypothetical of the FBI only being able to charge obstruction, I think there are cases where that might be appropriate. For example, they could charge for illegal removal/theft of Presidential Documents and then plead him down to only an obstruction charge... that could possibly take jail time off the table so as to not upset the MAGAs (prevent riots or worse).
I don't see Trump pleading guilty at all. So you have a trial. The trial of the century. And riots, etc.
Nixon did a lot more than simply try to keep his tapes private.
Well, yes he did. I did not see a need to describe all the things Nixon did. Just that the issue of not being able to keep his tapes set the precedent. It also led to the passage of the Presidential Records Act.
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I don't see Trump pleading guilty at all. So you have a trial. The trial of the century.
Trump has been known to settle lawsuits in the past.
In all your blind outrage it seems you missed this part:
"For ease of reference and because materials
marked as classified (and papers physically attached to them) must be treated as classified
until determined otherwise, this motion refers to records bearing classification markings as “classified records"
In other words, the documents are classified until Trump proves otherwise. Since he never told anyone or even changed their markings, good luck with that.
The notion that Trump declassified HUMINT and SIGINT data without telling a soul and without even bothering to change the classified markings, then stored them in an insecure area is a joke. The material still threatens human life and international secrets that our nation keeps. No American patriot would support such treason.
And even if they were proved to be unclassified, there are still PLENTY of criminal charges that still apply to this whole Mar a Lardo train wreck.
The magic declassification nonsense is ridiculous.
Even it that were a thing, these are all stolen documents, and some containing intel with significant national security implications.
It starts and stops with Trump stealing. If it is OK for him to do, why don't we all just go into the Archives and take what we want?
Exactly.
Some people have tried to claim that the documents were 'planted' by the 'Dems' or the FBI or something like that. It was de-bunked early but that was the speculation.
Surprisingly, that is the most rational argument, because it recognized something very fundamental: the documents did not belong there.
So logically, if the FBI/Dems/Antifa/League of Women Voters/Loyal Order of Moose etc did not plant the materials there ... who did?
If the law applies equally to all, one of those ne'er-do-wells should be charged with the crimes.
That person or persons would be the prime mover. That person would be the one responsible for this legal mess. No point in blaming anyone else or making excuses.
I completely disagree. If they find no evidence of the underlying crime, then they should ride off quietly into the sunset. Otherwise, charge him with a real crime and tack on any process crime he's guilty of as well.
Otherwise this just opens up someone to be prosecuted endlessly until they trip up and commit a process crime.
What if the obstruction is what prevented the investigators from finding enough evidence to charge the initial alleged crime(s)?
We'll very much agree to disagree on this front. Breaking a law is breaking a law.
In the case of a FPOTUS you have to have more than obstruction otherwise this will open the door to every former president being subjected to raids and possible criminal charges. If the FBI finds no crime was committed then they erred on wanting the search warrant. All of this should stop right there.
Look I am far from a fan of Trump. But I totally disagree with the get him at all costs mentality by some. You have to put the stability of the country above getting one person you don't like.
There are miles of difference between "get him at all costs" and "we should forgive an actual federal criminal violation".
If a cop stops you for a phony reason - I'm betting we've all had it happen - it doesn't make it OK for you to resist arrest or attempt to flee or assault the officer, etc.
"My" anonymous sources? Nope, they're all from you people. Seems it's all you have.
The DOJ says they recovered documents that had classified markings. Seems you don't know that declassified docs still have classified markings.
If you cannot discuss the case without using unproven rumors and wild conspiracy theories and fantasies, then you shouldn't be commenting on it.
Haven't we already been down this road once?
There are photos of many of the documents/cover folders - how many of them have modified classification headers (which they would if they were actually declassified)? None.
Well, yes he did. I did not see a need to describe all the things Nixon did. Just that the issue of not being able to keep his tapes set the precedent. It also led to the passage of the Presidential Records Act.
Trump has been known to settle lawsuits in the past.
Settled yes—but w/o admitting true guilt and/or serving any jail time
He can’t settle a criminal case like this w/o a serious penalty AND admitting guilt
He will never “settle” this case
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