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My point was, and remains, WalMart sells quality products - while you try to suggest they do not.
I shop at WalMart (and other stores) for the items I need - and want.
WalMart is a good company IMO.
You miss my point.
Many of the 'quality' manufacturers you named manufacture products specifically for WM that are cheaper and of cheaper quality. My point is that many WM shoppers - most- shop for stuff they don't need. It's slothful consumer overspending. You are a retiree, I believe, and have plenty of disposable income, fine for you, but many of the WM customer base does NOT, and really should be working on saving and not accumulating debt for a bunch on cheap junk.
You miss my point.
Many of the 'quality' manufacturers you named manufacture products specifically for WM that are cheaper and of cheaper quality. My point is that many WM shoppers - most- shop for stuff they don't need. It's slothful consumer overspending. You are a retiree, I believe, and have plenty of disposable income, fine for you, but many of the WM customer base does NOT, and really should be working on saving and not accumulating debt for a bunch on cheap junk.
All due respect, seriously! BUT:
1. Who is anyone to determine what is slothful overspending, or decide who spends their money on what?
2. Retirees have plenty of disposable income? I need to go hit my parents up for a loan
3. Again, WM customer base's spending habits are none of our business. This is America.
I will no longer walk into a Wal Mart...ever again! And this is what American Companies are doing. Greed, just plain Greed!
They farm all their manufacturing of their products out to 3rd World countries...they pay these workers 18 cents an hour (I think as I was so shocked by all the information on this documentary, I could not retain the information and plan to watch it again) ..the workers are trained to lie, actually taken into meetings and told how to lie so when the inspectors come in, about how many hours they work, about how many days a week they work...and if they don't do what they are told, those people are beaten...or fired. Is it no wonder that now and then some of our products have been sabotaged...oh, yeah, this is Good American Foreign Policy....no wonder other countries hate us? We have become barbaric and will do anything for money, and get rich quick schemes...even at the cost of human lives????
Wal Mart, has survalence cameras outside over looking their parking lots...but no one working them...they scrolled down on the screen how many crimes were committed at the parking lots of Wal Mart...unfathomable....unbelievable...that Wal Mart Cares so little for their employees and customers. Have you ever gone into a Wal Mart Store and asked for a big bag for your items...they don't have them...to expensive?????
They showed the estates of the owners and CEO's of Wal Mart....dispicable...how they could wallow in their riches at the cost of human beings....
I will never shop in another wal mart store again....I don't care how they advertise they are doing better...remember, everytime you purchase an item at Wal Mart, you are making them rich, and allowing them to treat their manufacturers deplorable wages and conditions.
And I'm certain Wal Mart isn't the only company...I think any company in America that would farm their work out to 3rd world countries, at the cost of quality customer relations to line their pockets with money are an insult to the integrity of the United States.
It is down right Greed.
I am so angry and upset...these people should be made to move to these countries where these people are actually slaves and made to live there....period, they should be driven out of the U.S. This is not what the U.S. grew on, and it is becoming an insult to those great men, like Adams, Jefferson, Washington, Franklin...for all they fought hard for so that American's could live free from this kind of behavior.
This is appauling, disgraceful...and makes me embarrassed that I have shopped there constantly...never again!
Creme
Sorry but i need to ask > Are you going to stop using Electric ,Gas, Water and most of all the worse offender the fuel co. that you buy gas for your car ?!!!! P S Forgot to add also the realtors that sold some of us those over price new homes , those Bankers that fooled us into those hugh loans that they knew we couldn't afford , and the list goes on and on give me a break we all need to stop trying to control some one elses lives . If you do not want to buy from them that you're choise and only your's, what i or any one else does with their money is not yours or my business period.
Last edited by Fighter 1; 07-10-2008 at 12:04 PM..
Many of the 'quality' manufacturers you named manufacture products specifically for WM that are cheaper and of cheaper quality. My point is that many WM shoppers - most- shop for stuff they don't need. It's slothful consumer overspending. You are a retiree, I believe, and have plenty of disposable income, fine for you, but many of the WM customer base does NOT, and really should be working on saving and not accumulating debt for a bunch on cheap junk.
No, I am not retired.
And, many customers of WalMart are shopping for products, goods and services that they do need - you provide no acknowledgment of this fact. They are shopping there to save money for products, goods and services they need.
And now that WalMart is setting up Medical Clinics in many stores around the country - clinics that will help provide healthcare services at lower costs - it sounds as if you would not want consumers to avail themselves of these services -
I love their Vision Center too. My son has been wearing glasses since he was 3 and his prescription is strong. The vision center at the doctors office was costing me $300 a pair (I paid $150 after the allowance). At Wal-Mart, I can get a good pair with Transition lenses for around $175 total. And that includes the $15 warranty that allows me to go in and have them straightened periodically b/c he is rough on glasses. But there are some who will always believe WalMart is the devil and nothing will change their minds.
I think no one is going to support the beatings/physical abuse of employees, so let's agree that that is to be condemned. I doubt that Wal-Mart suppliers have cornered the market on this, so let's set that aside.
The argument I find least convincing both in this "documentary" and from activist groups (anti-Nike and "sweatshop" University activists, for example) is about wage concerns. I have family who live in one of the "ermerging" countries in Southeast Asia, and the (often union-pushed) points really raise both eyebrows of curiosity and suspicion of motive.
The point about 18 cents per day is perfectly valid. In Indonesia or Vietnam or even China, what constitutes a "living" wage would shock most people in the US. What it costs to feed, house, and clothe people is much less than in the West. And beyond that, the desire for consumer junk of the sort that mesmerises Americans (rubbish "new" products like different coloured iPods) does not dictate the economies.
That said, when I hear about what wages "ought" to be in such countries, I am immediately suspicious as to what really motivates the asked. Is it to protect the poor, desperate "yellow" or "brown" man overseas, or to enrich American union bosses? What is ignored in this discussion is that the main competitive advantage that Indonesia (or any of the other third world nations) offers is low wages. Period. The workers are not more skilled. The external costs (transport of materials and finished goods, remote management) plainly are higher. If wages there were brought in line (or even close) with what is offered in the US, the jobs would not be there. So, the alternative here is that thousands and thousands of people would simply not have the job.
As has been pointed out, this is not a good alternative for a large number of people overseas. Poverty and unemployment of the sort unimaginable to most Westerners is rampant, and yes, working for 18 cents is preferable. So the "offering a poor man crumbs" analogy falls on its face. First, because to the young man or woman in Vietnam, they are not "crumbs," and the alternative - offering them nothing at all, is far worse.
In short, these sort of "message" documentaries (frequently backed by Unions with an axe to grind) push bogus statistics, flaccid arguments, and pretty naked propaganda to Westerners who otherwise have no real idea what is going on.
Well said. Thanks for backing up my statements and responding to the "arguments" cremebrulee made against what I wrote. Saved me some time explaining, AGAIN, why 18 cents to a Third-World resident is MUCH different than 18 cents to a U.S. resident, and why most of those workers wouldn't consider 18 cents to be "crumbs" any more than most Americans would consider $18/hr to be crumbs. Cremebrulee doesn't seem to want to grasp that concept.
What you proposed though is pure socialism and bordering on communism - and, I'm puzzled you don't recognize it
hmmm yeah GregW has a hard time coming to grips with his idealogy. Or maybe he knows it's socialism and communism but pretends that he is for individual liberty.
GregW on economics.... Individual Liberty controlled by the Government.
Libertyandjusticeforall on economics .... Individual liberty controlled by the individual.
Well said. Thanks for backing up my statements and responding to the "arguments" cremebrulee made against what I wrote. Saved me some time explaining, AGAIN, why 18 cents to a Third-World resident is MUCH different than 18 cents to a U.S. resident, and why most of those workers wouldn't consider 18 cents to be "crumbs" any more than most Americans would consider $18/hr to be crumbs. Cremebrulee doesn't seem to want to grasp that concept.
Of course.
I don't know Creme Brulee, so I won't ascribe any malevolent intent. But I do know other people who parrot such statistics who grasp it fully, but are deliberately being obtuse because they have an agenda (e.g., many union activists), and who really could scarcely care less about people in third world countries.
...I don't know Creme Brulee, so I won't ascribe any malevolent intent...
It's my belief that she's quite sincere; she was clearly shaken by the vid, so I think we can give her a pass on the underhanded agenda idea...
(others, however, like Mr. "Black Adam-and-White-Eve are the reason people don't like mixed-race-couples", or, Mr. "Why is White Culture propagating all these White Thugs?", are trolls just putting ridiculous stuff out there to tick people off and get everyone riled up)
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