Immediate Impact of obamacare Law: Caterpillar & John Deere - $250 MILLION hit (premium, layoff)

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by Anotherday10

Two multinational corporations. I am much more interested in small businesses, where most job growth comes from, NOT having to take on the burden of tying health insurance to jobs.

Locally they are reopening up a GM plan. They are adding a 3rd shift to bring the number of jobs to 1200 individuals. A spokesperson was on the radio today discussing that for every job created by GM, 5 other jobs are created in the small business sector.

Without large corporations expanding, often times the smaller business job growth which you just described can not take place..

[blackandproud]

Originally Posted by pghquest

The link goes directly to the IRS under BUSINESS TAXES, which is what healthcare TAX is...

Per the link
You can deduct various federal, state, local, and foreign taxes directly attributable to your trade or business as business expenses

Topics - This chapter discusses:

• When to deduct taxes
• Real estate taxes
• Income taxes
• Employment taxes
• Other taxes

It is NOT limited to JUST real estate taxes..

I'm fully aware of what charge off against earnings mean. That point you highlighted does not apply to these two companies. The chapter discuss those 4 topics. It breaks out each topic and the tax rules. The rule you referenced was claiming Property not Income Taxes. Income Taxes was further down the page. The rule that applies to filing Income Tax is Economic Performance in Publication 538.

Its too much for me to copy and paste, but this is the IRS Rule that applies to a Corporation the size of Derr and Catepillar.

Publication 538 (3/2008), Accounting Periods and Methods

Any corporation the size of these two, that use the method you reference would be sharing a cell with Madoff

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by sanrene

How many businesses will pare down employees under that 50 mark?

Or even worse, how many businesses will hire 100 part time employees to replace 50 full time ones, since the bill only taxes full time employees?

[sanrene]

Originally Posted by Anotherday10

I worked in corporate America most my life and most recently banking. I have an MBA, the most Gordon Gecco ME degree out there. Then I got a heart and conscience.

I am quite sure John Deere is concerned about your bottom line too.

Yeah, let's do away with big oil, big pharma, big telecoms, big banks.

A completely absurd notion.

[Anotherday10]

Originally Posted by sanrene

Yeah, let's do away with big oil, big pharma, big telecoms, big banks.

A completely absurd notion.

Actually, I really did.

Like I said, I am quite sure that big oil, big pharma, big telecoms and big banks have your best interests at heart. When YOU figure this out (not!), you will be one step closer to the end of your life AND enlightenment, dare I say.

[skchi]

Originally Posted by sanrene

Uh-huh. Sure you did. With that attitude, that all corporations are evil, I kind of doubt it.

Yeah, let's do away with big oil, big pharma, big telecoms, big banks.

A completely absurd notion.

I'm all for getting rid of big oil, big pharma, big telecoms, and big banks if there was a way to do it without taking the whole economy with them. They're becoming monopolies. No single company should be so important to our economy that our government needs to bail them out when things get tough.

Wouldn't we all be better off with lots of competition? How does a free market work without competition?

[sanrene]

Originally Posted by skchi

I'm all for getting rid of big oil, big pharma, big telecoms, and big banks if there was a way to do it without taking the whole economy with them. They're becoming monopolies. No single company should be so important to our economy that our government needs to bail them out when things get tough.

Wouldn't we all be better off with lots of competition? How does a free market work without competition?

I don't agree with bailouts, of any kind.

They should have been allowed to fail, go through the normal bankruptcy process and come out the other end more competitive.

Big Pharma - what would we do without the many, many "miracle" drugs developed and brought to market by the Pharma companies?

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by blackandproud

I'm fully aware of what charge off against earnings mean. That point you highlighted does not apply to these two companies. The chapter discuss those 4 topics. It breaks out each topic and the tax rules. The rule you referenced was claiming Property not Income Taxes.

It did no such thing.. IRS website is VERY clear on rules for deducting expenses..
Publication 535 (2009), Business Expenses
Under an accrual method, you can deduct a tax before you pay it if you meet the exception for recurring items discussed under Economic Performance in Publication 538. You can also elect to ratably accrue real estate taxes as discussed later under Real Estate Taxes.

Thats DEDUCT A TAX, NOT JUST real estate taxes..

And THEN you go onto Publication 538, which then qualifies what an economic performance is..
Taxes. Economic performance generally occurs as estimated income tax, property taxes, employment taxes, etc. are paid. However, you can elect to treat taxes as a recurring item, discussed later. You can also elect to ratably accrue real estate taxes. See chapter 5 of Publication 535 for information about real estate taxes.

You then go on to the exemptions for "recurring items", because clearly the healthcare bill is a healthcare TAX, which qualifies. On the same page it states

Exception for recurring items. An exception to the economic performance rule allows certain recurring items to be treated as incurred during the tax year even though economic performance has not occurred. The exception applies if all the following requirements are met.

Which it goes on to list the 4 qualifications for exemptions. A healthcare tax would indeed qualify under every single one of those exemptions.

Originally Posted by blackandproud

Its too much for me to copy and paste, but this is the IRS Rule that applies to a Corporation the size of Derr and Catepillar.

There are not rules that apply to corporations the size of Derr and Catepillar that would not apply to John Smith Corporation.. There is ONE IRS book for EVERYONE..

Originally Posted by blackandproud

Any corporation the size of these two, that use the method you reference would be sharing a cell with Murdock.

Feel free to notify the IRS and inform them that you think you are more aware of the tax code than the hundreds of accountants that work for both of these corporations.

[James420]

In my lifetime I would like to see everyone agree on the fact that when big businesses are booming, small businesses will in turn be doing well, the CEO's are making millions, us worker bees are making a good salary then everyone wins. When money is being circulated not just by the upper 10% but by 80% of the people, again, everyone wins.

We need big oil and big pharma to do well. We need big whoever to do well.

This whole thing about layoffs is bull$hit, if you lay employees you make less money. If a company can make the same money with 200 employeess instead of 300 employees those 100 employees were done long before this Healthcare bill passed. That formula has been around for years and is being used by 90% of the corporations in this country everyday.

[skchi]

Originally Posted by sanrene

I don't agree with bailouts, of any kind.

They should have been allowed to fail, go through the normal bankruptcy process and come out the other end more competitive.

Big Pharma - what would we do without the many, many "miracle" drugs developed and brought to market by the Pharma companies?

Big Pharma doesn't even develop many of the "miracle" drugs. Small companies, researchers at universities, and researchers in government do a lot of research and development, then Big Pharma buys the small companies or the patents for the profitable drugs.