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I haven't read his whole weird manifesto, but the impressions I've been given from those who have read it is that he was all pouty because women didn't throw themselves at him. He really didn't get "shot down" a lot in some cruel way by any female, because it didn't sound like he approached any of them. I do recall an episode he told of how he "smiled" at some women sitting at a bus stop, and when those heartless shrews didn't smile back, he got so outraged that he doubled back in his car and spilled his drink all over them.
This sounds like the kind of horrible cruelty that was inflicted upon him by those evil, evil women. Oh, the heartlessness! The poor little lamb, how traumatic!
I've been repped a lot in this thread too. And I started participating relatively recently.
Some of the things you seem to be okay with are that women are supposed to be beautiful (it's their duty). That men are upset when women aren't working hard to be pretty (this fuels their anger) and somehow, what? The poor men? Those wicked women aren't going on diets and wearing more makeup, how dare they? Those men are idiots if that is what is angering them.
And then you seem to be sympathetic because some schlub is upset because he can't "date up" or a woman who is hotter than him won't give him a chance (as if she "owes" him that)? That they feel outrage because these women dare to have physical standards too, just like men do?
These are the kinds of things that a lot of us here are mocking, and it sounds like you think these are "negative female behaviors" that would fuel this violence.
They are ridiculous reasons for a guy to go on a killing spree. Guys like this need to pull up their big boy panties and get used to the human condition. No woman owes them a date, and a beautiful woman is not a prize that they're entitled to, just because they like the look of her.
I hardly feel bad for Elliot Rodger. He was a fool. (And I dislike the heavily made-up look.) But there are many, many other men with more legitimate versions of his grievances (which is what makes disgusting the mocking premise of this thread). Also, one thing that personally disturbed me was his being so distracted by presumably under-dressed female classmates that it disrupted his education. Society can't let that happen to young men.
Anyway, a new LA Times story said last year he got attacked (by men) as "gay." I'll bet he went through that more of that in his teens. Delicate-looking males have it bad. He clearly had anger at multiple sources that he channeled mostly at women.
But there are many, many other men with more legitimate versions of his grievances (which is what makes disgusting the mocking premise of this thread).
Let's hear it. Spill it out. Outline, in specifics, the LEGITIMATE "versions" of grievances. What things have women done that can cause men to feel anger?
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Also, one thing that personally disturbed me was his being so distracted by presumably under-dressed female classmates that it disrupted his education. Society can't let that happen to young men.
How do you propose that be fixed?
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Anyway, a new LA Times story said last year he got attacked (by men) as "gay." I'll bet he went through that more of that in his teens. Delicate-looking males have it bad.
I wholeheartedly agree that it stinks for delicate-looking men to get harassed because of their looks.
Can you be specific about what common negative female behaviors you are talking about?
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Originally Posted by elvira310
Let's hear it. Spill it out. Outline, in specifics, the LEGITIMATE "versions" of grievances. What things have women done that can cause men to feel anger?
How do you propose that be fixed?
goodheathen, you keep making blanket pronouncements about negative female behaviors and legitimate grievances against women. It would be helpful to this discussion if you would provide some specifics.
I made my list maybe around page 10. First person to paste it gets a rep from me? The gist of it is that modern women don't seem to know how to behave (including look) around men, with the nicer girls largely avoiding or inaccessible to men and the others acting too much like men. Sometimes lonely dudes then turn to places such as clubs and public pick-ups (or sororities, like Elliot Rodger), but those have never been effective ways to meet decent women and often backfire and result in anger.
You keep saying that "society" needs to do something about this problem, as if society is an organization or political party. Who do you mean by society? What specifically needs to be done?
It's not fair at all for the behavior of Elliot Rodgers and his ilk to fall on women. It is not the fault of women in general that he felt lonely and entitled, and the onus is not on women in general to act or dress in a way to appease social misfits. If anything, the onus is on young men to not bully each other, to not objectify women and to have realistic expectations of interpersonal relationships. Young men need to take ownership of their own thoughts, feelings, and behaviors and to ask for help long before writing a manifesto and buying a gun.
I'm not against dress codes, but I'm fairly certain that even strict dress codes would still see some hormone-addled young men 'distracted,' and there comes a point where the young men need to take responsibility for their own feelings and behaviors instead of blaming women.
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I made my list maybe around page 10. First person to paste it gets a rep from me? The gist of it is that modern women don't seem to know how to behave (including look) around men, with the nicer girls largely avoiding or inaccessible to men and the others acting too much like men. Sometimes lonely dudes then turn to places such as clubs and public pick-ups (or sororities, like Elliot Rodger), but those have never been effective ways to meet decent women and often backfire and result in anger.
I'm on a phone so it's a hassle to go searching, but I'll assume that by 'look' you mean thin and pretty, and failure to do so means fomenting anger? And that if the 'favored' ones, the skinny pretty ones, (aka the ones who have not been deemed invisible by these men ) don't in turn 'give them a chance' because it's like these women *owe* all guys an equal chance (though of course the guys don't *owe* all women--including the less pretty ones--a chance) then this results in anger... due to 'negative female behaviors'? Lol
I made my list maybe around page 10. First person to paste it gets a rep from me? The gist of it is that modern women don't seem to know how to behave (including look) around men, with the nicer girls largely avoiding or inaccessible to men and the others acting too much like men. Sometimes lonely dudes then turn to places such as clubs and public pick-ups (or sororities, like Elliot Rodger), but those have never been effective ways to meet decent women and often backfire and result in anger.
I went and looked back at the beginning of this thread and couldn't find your list.
I'm not opposed to school dress codes in high school, but kids always do their best to get around them.
You want women to look and behave a certain way (still not described here) around men, for nice girls (not sure who that describes) to be accessible and for no women to act like men (not sure what that means). I know from some of your other posts that you don't think women should be overweight.
And when women don't subscribe to the above, you believe that they bear some responsibility for the anger that men feel when they have a difficult time getting a date.
You appear to have a very one-dimensional view of women and in all your posts there is an overwhelming sense that you see women's role in society as solely that of making themselves pleasing to men. You seem to believe that women owe it to men to look and behave a certain way and that they aren't keeping up their end of the bargain when they don't. On top of that, even when a woman looks and behaves in a particular way that pleases you, you discount any desire she might have for certain qualities in a mate and believe she should make herself accessible to any man who wants her.
If you are not already part of a conservative religious sect, you might consider joining one, because I think that is your best chance for finding a mate. And I don't mean that in a snarky way. I think you were born about 70 years after your time.
At some point, rather than looking to women as a group or society to fix what you perceive as a problem, you're going to have to come to terms with the notion that most women are not going to behave the way you think they should. You have the power to change yourself, or change your expectations, but you can't change women as a whole.
I am not religious and don't think my view of women is very one-dimensional, but it is rather traditional and leans toward the idea that society needs women to be a civilizing force for men. I think women underestimate how much the typical male values traditional femininity and also how turbulent the minds of sexually frustrated young men often are. Yes, "there comes a point" where men have to control themselves, but even therapy didn't seem to much help Elliot Rodger with that and as he noted it's largely useless re doing better with women. (The typical therapist isn't nearly masculine enough or understanding of the modern dating scene for young people.)
My opinion isn't that women as a whole should cater to very frustrated men, but if most 'normal' men want women to act differently than they do (in a reasonable way, not sex on demand or something), then that's how women could help prevent more high-profile destructive male behavior.
Or try reading my post properly before ranting. I said "obese." Even among those women, granted, are some whose excess stems from things like molestation, but that's not a total excuse, as people should get help for trauma.
I read your post. I was being kind. What do you consider "obese?" What makes it so off-putting? Do you know there are men who like large women? Yep....just like men who prefer little women, there are men who prefer women who have more to hold on to. Like I said, there are cultures where overweight women, and even obese women, are admired and even looked at as a sign of wealth since it requires a good job for a man to be able to feed his wife enough food to get fat. I just get sick of people using the physical thing as an excuse to be shallow. It's no better than women who want a perfect man when they have their own shortcomings....not at all. Still, society at large is far more accepting of a quirky looking man than they are of a woman with extra pounds on her body.
Merely "getting help for trauma," as you suggested, is far from enough for women who are overweight or even obese as the result of molestation or abuse. Apparently you don't have any experience dealing with these kinds of women. Those who are subjected to sexual assault as children spend most of the rest of their lives dealing with feelings of guilt, inadequacy, somehow being responsible for the assault, and being ashamed of what has happened to them. It's a lot more than the weight issue at hand. And, for your information, therapy doesn't come free. Many health insurance policies don't cover mental health care and it's not cheap. The number of uninsured in the USA leaves thousands, if not more, women who were subjected to violent primary exposure to the sexual act and who have had no intervention because either they were terrified to tell due to threats made by the abuser, because their parents or other family members had no access to mental health care, or both. The emotional toil of abuse can be a lifelong problem to deal with, and the number of women who never speak of what happened to them, and end up alone and lonely, is unknown. Unfortunately, people like yourself who simply think "getting help for trauma" will help put the problem to rest are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
It's not rude at all. It's just stating the truth. There's nothing to suggest Susan had a man at any point. There's been more lesbian rumors than straight rumors. I doubt she's gay, just towards the bottom of the looks scale.
Everyone judges on physical appearance. I do it, you do it, everyone does it.
And on that note you are wrong. I don't judge people by physical appearance. I've had enough of that kind of junk to last me for the rest of my life. I listen to people, and I give everyone a chance before making any kind of decision on what or who I think they might be. People who have been harshly judged for one or more reasons can be much more compassionate than others....not that we all are, but some of us are. I met, spoke with, and was engaged to my husband before I ever saw him. It had nothing to do with what he looked like. It was about who he was inside. Just in case you wonder, we're going on 15 years together and we're more in love now than we were when we got married. He is the kindest, most loving, most romantic, and sweetest man I've ever met. I married him for those characteristics -- not for what he looked like.
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) don't in turn 'give them a chance' because it's like these women *owe* all guys an equal chance (though of course the guys don't *owe* all women--including the less pretty ones--a chance) then this results in anger... due to 'negative female behaviors'? Lol
