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I agree...men aren't the only ones condemned for being an older virgin.
I never really understood why people put so much emphasis on having sex by certain age. It's not right. No one should ever have to live their life according to someone else's. That is completely selfish and wrong. This society and it's media preys on the insecure. It's sad.
That's becasue society feels there needs to be a natural progression as you get older and if you aren't getting laid by a certain age you will not develop correctly.
I simply don't understand this assumption, that by presenting more visually appealing options, the ... mentally ill violent man won't go crazy? Giving them a wider buffet of eye candy who still won't touch them with another woman's plumbing, won't do anything except increase their frustration. No kind of woman approached Elliot Rodger as far as I know, though I admit I didn't read the whole manifesto to see if he indicated he was turning away brunettes and redheads left and right I tend to doubt it. It would solve the problem if he only had something better to look at with regularity than the general overwhelmingly taut and tanned population of Orange County? Who all then continued to ignore him like the plague? That doesn't make sense.
Yeah, and I mused about that and a need for giving both sexes better ways to hang out around each other.
Also, I have said repeatedly that men do have obligations to make themselves desirable. But the system seems to be breaking down mainly because women are opting out (arguably partly at the behest of misandry) of traditional ways of appealing to men. It's not a matter of condemning cat-ladies and such, but if there's no pressure on many women to get it together, then it turns into a tragedy of the commons situation for both sexes romantically, with the occasional man lashing out (verbally or even physically) at random women of some kind he resents.
I read your post. I was being kind. What do you consider "obese?" What makes it so off-putting? Do you know there are men who like large women? Yep....just like men who prefer little women, there are men who prefer women who have more to hold on to. Like I said, there are cultures where overweight women, and even obese women, are admired and even looked at as a sign of wealth since it requires a good job for a man to be able to feed his wife enough food to get fat. I just get sick of people using the physical thing as an excuse to be shallow. It's no better than women who want a perfect man when they have their own shortcomings....not at all. Still, society at large is far more accepting of a quirky looking man than they are of a woman with extra pounds on her body.
Merely "getting help for trauma," as you suggested, is far from enough for women who are overweight or even obese as the result of molestation or abuse. Apparently you don't have any experience dealing with these kinds of women. Those who are subjected to sexual assault as children spend most of the rest of their lives dealing with feelings of guilt, inadequacy, somehow being responsible for the assault, and being ashamed of what has happened to them. It's a lot more than the weight issue at hand. And, for your information, therapy doesn't come free. Many health insurance policies don't cover mental health care and it's not cheap. The number of uninsured in the USA leaves thousands, if not more, women who were subjected to violent primary exposure to the sexual act and who have had no intervention because either they were terrified to tell due to threats made by the abuser, because their parents or other family members had no access to mental health care, or both. The emotional toil of abuse can be a lifelong problem to deal with, and the number of women who never speak of what happened to them, and end up alone and lonely, is unknown. Unfortunately, people like yourself who simply think "getting help for trauma" will help put the problem to rest are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
That exchange was a while ago. I gave the trauma-related part short shrift mainly because it's off-topic, supposing that's an uncommon reason for obesity. You seem to know more about it than I do, but nevertheless in the end it's mainly up to those women to seek help (doesn't Obamacare now mandate mental health coverage?) and of course society to prevent such trauma in the first place.
Obesity is whatever the clinical definition is. (Aside from normal-weight obesity, meaning a very high body fat percentage while not looking very heavy and the unattractiveness of which I'm unsure.) There are men who like large women, but it's a minority and many of them either also like thinner women or have fetishes (which can be damaging to relationships). The other men are involuntarily turned off by obese women. Being mad at men for that is like short guys getting mad that taller women don't want to date them. I'm not condoning men for making fun of obese women or things like that, and I hardly sympathize with obese men who avoid obese women.
I don't think anyone is trying to insult male virgins. I think so many have responded to this thread because we know first hand that dating does not come easily to a multitude of people. The idea that women "owe" men dates is obviously not going to be accepted by women so we've been trying to explain that this mindset will get no one anywhere.
It's a passive-aggressive thread meant to slander male virgins. I'm not one but a lot of subtle hate here with this 'facetious' title. Hidden agenda by the OP.
I have no idea why this thread has been allowed to continue for so long. It should have been locked down for it's stupidity and back-handed insults to male virgins.
Do you indeed mean, that these male virgins who made sweet heart-song tapes of emotions of directly trying to steer the hot blonde babes mentally towards "the correct and only pure love by Elliott, by tapes and manifestos who was interned cast-out the hot blonde babes that were already dating someone that was demeaning to them ( on-purpose) and had no ability to see a hypnotic, elegant, good looking, articulate, college educated, sleek, intriguingly handsome, God-given, BMW owner with hot sunglasses? Or are you saying most ( if not all) these articulate and sleek, sexy smokin' hot virgins don't apply any effort to get the hot blonde babe? Only to turn around and blast everyone away because they didn't get a hot blonde, whom they never introduced themselves too or only dreamed about.?
Last edited by thegreenflute334; 06-13-2014 at 01:29 AM..
Yes: they might ditch that polo/biker shirt you hate, they might be talked out of spending money on tickets to some metal festival. Small nits. As in "nitpicking".
However, if it's important to the woman that the man might take the lead in a relationship instead of always making it an "equal partnership" (or, worse, deferring to her, when maybe she doesn't want to decide what to do about her birthday, or whose family they should spend time with during the holidays, and is hoping he'll take some initiative or voice some preference), there's no guarantee the man will make those changes from the reticent person she knew who required all the handholding to even get to talk to her at the beginning.
Obesity is whatever the clinical definition is. (Aside from normal-weight obesity, meaning a very high body fat percentage while not looking very heavy and the unattractiveness of which I'm unsure.) There are men who like large women, but it's a minority and many of them either also like thinner women or have fetishes (which can be damaging to relationships). The other men are involuntarily turned off by obese women. Being mad at men for that is like short guys getting mad that taller women don't want to date them. I'm not condoning men for making fun of obese women or things like that, and I hardly sympathize with obese men who avoid obese women.
Obesity, like smoking, is a personal issue and no one has any right to claim that it is cause to make a others "angry" because of how it affects their own love life.
I don't like smoking, but if all the men around me started to smoke, thus eliminating themselves from MY dating pool, what would I do? Would I be justified in being angry and "lashing out" at all these smokers, or demanding that you guys tell the "brotherhood" to get it together and quit smoking, because women like me are finding less men to date, and that cannot happen? We must not be denied men that we consider datable?
Men who smoke cannot (and would not) demand that I date them anyway, with them puffing away, would they? I cannot (and would not) demand that they stop smoking just to make themselves more appealing to me. It's absolutely none of my business what they do.
Again I will say it: They owe me nothing. Just like obese women owe men nothing. If they want to remain fat, they can remain fat. If and only if they want to expand their dating pool, then they can lose weight, because THEY want to. But not because they "owe" it to anyone else. Women's obesity is not responsible for any man's frustration, anger, depression, lashing out, upset . . . nothing relating to the man's own love life or dating life. It's none of his business whatsoever.
To suggest otherwise is saying that women shouldn't have agency over how they choose to live their life, or rather, they should answer to others about a completely personal decision, like their appearance. That is completely unacceptable and unreasonable.
Yeah, and I mused about that and a need for giving both sexes better ways to hang out around each other.
Also, I have said repeatedly that men do have obligations to make themselves desirable. But the system seems to be breaking down mainly because women are opting out (arguably partly at the behest of misandry) of traditional ways of appealing to men. It's not a matter of condemning cat-ladies and such, but if there's no pressure on many women to get it together, then it turns into a tragedy of the commons situation for both sexes romantically, with the occasional man lashing out (verbally or even physically) at random women of some kind he resents.
I would say that the same ways for men to meet women and vice-versa, exist which have always existed. (Well, outside of the fact that we used to have debutante balls and the "marriage market" was an actual social construct, these were primarily for the upper class.) As we move out and about our daily lives. And we've still got the same problem - "pressure for women to get it together" is going to improve life for men "lashing out at women"? Let alone improving life for the women? Give us a template for this scenario other than Rodger. I've had men "lash out at me verbally", but all it's done is sour me on the good ones and in fact any random person who might be approaching, and these verbal "approaches", many women have spoken about in other places: Catcalling. "I was 'hot mama' when I was passing him on the street, then I was 'ugly b*tch', when I told him "I'm not here for your pleasure."
For physical "lashing out" against women, many of those instances happen within the obvious sphere: domestic violence. Encompassing women who already have a relationship with the man who lashes out. If a man approaches a random woman in a bar and she turns him down, in a way he perceives to be negative, which may or may not be negative, and his response to his friends as she walks away is also "b*tch" or "Lesbian!"; who says the woman cares what this troglodyte thinks, or believes she is actually unappealing, because the man who just finished thinking she was so hot he had to strike up a conversation with her is now against her? Can't be referring to sexual assault, because we know that's a crime of violence, and senior citizens have been sexually assaulted; the problem certainly can't be that they refused to come on to their mugger. Where is the template for disasters that happen because a man gets turned down too often? Even in some Rodger-esque cases it's been a man going on a rampage because he was smarting over being broken up with by an actual fiance or similar, not some fantasy construct.
From reading this thread and others on CD, it seems like many people think that a guy who is a lonely virgin just needs to "hit the gym, get a good haircut, dress nice, develop confidence;" that every guy who can't find a woman he's attracted to is a lazy slob. Certainly there are too many men who are lazy slobs, but there are tons of men whose life revolves around improving their appearance and demeanor and yet they can't find mutual sexual attraction.
One reason is because there's not that much a man can do to improve his sexual attractiveness (which is to say his appearance ... Let's end this nonsense about women being "turned on" by a guy's humor or interestingness).
A large determining factor in a man's sexual attractiveness is his height, which is an immutable quality. Going to the gym to get a lean, muscular body doesn't affect attractiveness as much as guys wish it did. Women, on the other hand, have all sorts of mechanisms for vastly improving the sexual attractiveness of their figure: getting slender, getting breast implants, wearing high heels, getting a tan.
What about face? As far as complexion, a guy can't get a tan or spa treatment without being considered gay, can't paste makeup over his face to hide his acne or resulting scars, might have to contend with hair loss at an early age, etcetera. There's not much a guy can do to look better.
The idea that men don't try to improve their physical appearance is ridiculous. Prowl around the bathrooms of most men and you'll find tweezers, teeth whitening kits, medications to prevent hair loss, fancy cologne, etc.
Another reason that a guy can't find mutual sexual attraction is because, well, women find a very small number of men to be sexually attractive. I would say that women find about 1% of the male population sexually attractive, while men find 20% of the female population sexually attractive (could be a lot more or less, depending on location). The dating world is a competition over the top 20% of women, who aren't interesting in 99 out of 100 men who try to attract them.
Another reason that a guy can't find mutual sexual attraction is because, well, women find a very small number of men to be sexually attractive. I would say that women find about 1% of the male population sexually attractive, while men find 20% of the female population sexually attractive (could be a lot more or less, depending on location). The dating world is a competition over the top 20% of women, who aren't interesting in 99 out of 100 men who try to attract them.
You can't just pull numbers out of your ass. It's Friday--go stand inside a movie theater or restaurant lobby tonight and watch the couples coming and going. Do you think you're going to see only the top 20% of women and 1% of men on dates? Do you think the couples who aren't "top tier" by your arbitrary standards are just settling and aren't actually attracted to each other?
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