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I'm the same way. Us older singles have done the marriage / family thing and understand how important a marriage commitment is to making babies and raising those kids.
After a long marriage and the kids successfully raised and independent, I would not get married again.
Marriage is important for young people who want to build a family and have kids.
It's not that important for us old farts who just want a companion friend and have sleepovers on occasion.
We are not considering making babies. I got that T-Shirt.
What would have been the difference if you and your ex had not married? You stayed together for the same length of time you did, and split up same time you did, but you never married.
Pretty convenient that the OP should marry, but you should not.
I'm indifferent to marriage. But I may decide I want to have a child one day. If I had a partner who wanted to have a kid with me and live with me and form a family, you can be damn sure I would demand marriage. I asked one of my gay friends years ago why he cared so much about marriage, and he responded that there were over 400 legal rights and privileges that were afforded married couples vs. unmarried couples. Now, if it's just two adults living side by side, I don't really care - I take care of everything I need with no problem. But some guy says "let's have a kid!"? I'm gonna ask him when we're getting married. I don't care about those 400+ rights and privileges for myself, but my kid had better have all of those benefits at their disposal.
What's most disturbing about your post is that it seems like the woman is disposable in your equation. In two to three years, you want to have a kid. Is the relationship just a means to that end? It reminds me of so many women I've known - including my own mother - who got hitched just to have a kid. So are you just gonna shack up with some woman to make sure your genetic material passes on? I mean come on - look at what the implication is: "In 2 to 3 years, I want to be shacked up with some woman who will bear my child." Does that sound at all healthy to you?
What would have been the difference if you and your ex had not married? You stayed together for the same length of time you did, and split up same time you did, but you never married.
I was married for 35 years. I made a Vow of marriage and commitment to my wife because we loved each other and wanted kids.
I never would have considered having a family without the commitment.
I think the odds of finding a woman willing to have your children despite knowing that you will never, ever marry her are slim. Plenty of men have children with women they don't marry. However, they do it by stringing them along with false promises.
I think the odds of finding a woman willing to have your children despite knowing that you will never, ever marry her are slim. Plenty of men have children with women they don't marry. However, they do it by stringing them along with false promises.
I question the motive for some women when it comes to marriage. I believe some think of it as a status symbol. Although a major turnoff to me, that isn't what this thread is about.
It is clear that you can raise children in a household without married couples. I understand if you are married you get benefits you would otherwise not get (taxes, etc.).
I by no way mean it to be an insult to any woman either, as in I don't want her thinking "oh, I'm not good enough for him to marry me." That shouldn't be the point, if I feel like I want to have your children and I want to live with you to raise them isn't that enough? The trust that goes into something like that is special and I believe that is stronger than anything a system or process can conjure up.
There are aspects of married couples I absolutely despise as well. The whole hubby, wifey, DH, MY wife, MY husband thing is just over-the-top. I'm definitely not a fan of it. Like I stated earlier, I'm more open to life changes. Nothing stays the same forever, life isn't meant to sit and stay stagnant. People change overtime, and I will not get in the way of that. I understand marriage says in sickness and health, better or worse, but I've met plenty of people that had all that axed when things really did change for better or worse. The human psych isn't made to deal and cope with such emotion.
I'm not a big fan of marriage, most men I know have been burned by it and it wrecks of negativity. Not saying all marriages are a bust, but when they do go bust (and a good percentage do) it is emotionally draining.
With that said, I want to have children. Perhaps in the next 2-3 years, up until this point I was running around avoiding LTRs and now I kind of want to get into one, with the right woman for me of course.
Will it be difficult to find a woman that wants to have children without marriage? This does not mean I will just have children with her and then leave her. It means raising a family, living together, being together exclusively and growing old together. Can this be accomplished without a piece of paper?
It is your life and your decision and this is something that should be told to your potential long term partner up front. Some people actually do want to and like to be married.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7
Well for starters, I'm not religious. I guess that means if I were speaking marriage it would be civil. I'm not trying to sound selfish, but perhaps I am. I'm not in favor of the concept. Perhaps a prenupt would work for me. I do not believe marriage is a precursor to raising a happy successful family either.
You do not have to be religious to be or get married.
You have already got all the "I don't believe in marriage" excuses planned out so why ask anyone else what they think about it all?
If you have that much financial worth you should already have a will done as well which includes what will happen to your assets in regards to your future children and grand children should there be any.
In my opinion (and I only speak for myself), a pre-nuptial agreement already shows lack of trust in one's partner and I could never be with someone I do not trust.
Not being married is not a precursor to raising a happy successful family either. Partners need to be actual parents and partners in the way the children are taught and raised. If you are not on the same page when it comes to marriage you definitely won't be on the same page when it comes to raising children. Something else that needs to be up front from the start.
Maybe instead of a "pre-nuptial" agreement you should think about a marriage contract. It really does sound like a business deal not a loving, giving, sharing life long partnership with someone you choose to be with.
A lot has been said in this thread--especially about how a stable family benefits children, so I don't want to keep repeating that. I would like to point out something that's been overlooked and warn the OP of something. If you think having children without being married is going to somehow eliminate the drama and financial burden for you that comes with divorce, think again. Most of "divorce drama" and financial fighting is over children, child care, and support... and you will still have that. Childcare, child support, and parenting and custody drama will be part of the equation if you have children and split up with their mother--married or not.
Depending on where you live, you will also lose a lot of paternal rights (something that needs to be fixed, I agree... but it's still a reality). If something happens to the mother of your children, you may be in for a legal battle with the maternal grandparents of the children (since they are the next of kin). Again, this depends on where you live.
If you live in a more state where divorce laws are biased against men... chances are you are also in a state where paternal rights are weak too. And if you live in a state with more modern paternal rights laws, chances are the divorce laws are gender neutral and you have little to fear (other than the time and legal costs a divorce will take). You have to look into both, assume the best and worst case scenarios before making a legal and financial decision.
Do what you want. But not being married isn't a "get out of problems" free card. If anything, I would say a divorce between two married people without kids is a lot easier, quicker, and less financially cumbersome than an 18-year ongoing custody and child support battle between two unmarried parents. And if you live with the mother of the children and split up, you still have to split assets, furniture, etc in most cases anyway and instead of going to family court to settle things, you still go to court... just small claims (and there is a longer wait for that as family courts expedite things). It's not easier. It might not even be quicker. And if you live in a state with common law marriage, living together with someone and having children with them might make you "automatically married" legally too. Look into all the laws of your state before deciding.
What I find ironic is that you've been on the other thread stating all the reasons why you'd never get married again, but are on this thread shaming this man into a legally binding agreement that has a 50% failure rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin
I'm the same way. Us older singles have done the marriage / family thing and understand how important a marriage commitment is to making babies and raising those kids.
After a long marriage and the kids successfully raised and independent, I would not get married again.
Marriage is important for young people who want to build a family and have kids.
It's not that important for us old farts who just want a companion friend and have sleepovers on occasion.
We are not considering making babies. I got that T-Shirt.
Thank you, Rakin.
RShack, since you like to look at prior posts, then surely you've seen where I've said again and again that marriage isn't for everyone, and that's okay. I said it in this very thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110
Marriage is not for everyone, and that's okay. But cohabitation is not, and never will be, the same thing.
I've also said that these days, I don't necessarily see the point of marriage unless one wants children, but that I can certainly understand why people would want to make that commitment, as I made it, myself even though I didn't want kids. I also laid out, in another thread, my criteria for considering a man marriage-material. So given the right set of circumstances and the right man, I would consider it, even now.
I'm not shaming anyone. That's your own conscience talking.
I by no way mean it to be an insult to any woman either, as in I don't want her thinking "oh, I'm not good enough for him to marry me."
Good luck with that. That's exactly how I'd feel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7
That shouldn't be the point, if I feel like I want to have your children and I want to live with you to raise them isn't that enough?
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7
The trust that goes into something like that is special and I believe that is stronger than anything a system or process can conjure up.
Again, good luck.
Incidentally, you will still have the complicated and emotionally difficult task of hashing out custody and child support. You can't pre-nup that away.
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