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One last thought here... With many introverts I know (and I socialize with a lot of them, ironically) it's not so much that they full on cannot stand people or don't have the desire or ability to interact. It's more a matter of a need to find a group that feels comfortable, and sometimes a need to be able to split away in a smaller group for more focused conversation, rather than mingling on a larger scale. The comfort thing can often be helped along by finding social opportunities tied to something you're interested in or passionate about. Giving yourself a "reason to be there" rather than being just another guy in a bar or something. A feeling that you belong. That's one reason that I often recommend that people try to cultivate a hobby interest, or find people who gather around something they already care about. And socializing gets far easier with practice.
As an introvert, my social comfort level is keyed off of two factors: how well do I know the group, and how big is the group. If I am with a group of people I don't know, total strangers, four other people is about my max. If it's a group I do know, I can do up to about ten, although if there are any strangers mixed into that group that number goes down (for instance, if there are two people I don't know, I can handle a group of about 8). I can't keep up with more than about ten people no matter how well I know them....too many conversations and people to try to keep track of. Too many distractions. If I'm carrying on a 1-on-1 conversation with someone nearly exclusively I can survive, but otherwise, if my group size limits are reached, I will shut down and not say anything. I can't even think of anything to say.
And sometimes I just get "peopled out." Too much social interaction and stimulation over a period of time will lead me to shut down until I have some alone time.
As an introvert, my social comfort level is keyed off of two factors: how well do I know the group, and how big is the group. If I am with a group of people I don't know, total strangers, four other people is about my max. If it's a group I do know, I can do up to about ten, although if there are any strangers mixed into that group that number goes down (for instance, if there are two people I don't know, I can handle a group of about 8). I can't keep up with more than about ten people no matter how well I know them....too many conversations and people to try to keep track of. Too many distractions. If I'm carrying on a 1-on-1 conversation with someone nearly exclusively I can survive, but otherwise, if my group size limits are reached, I will shut down and not say anything. I can't even think of anything to say.
And sometimes I just get "peopled out." Too much social interaction and stimulation over a period of time will lead me to shut down until I have some alone time.
Did you read Susan Cain's "Quiet"? Nominally its about introversion but really its about becoming a more effective introvert. One point that she made that stuck with me is that introverts are more reluctant to talk to people about things they don't understand, but if you get them something they feel comfortable with, they function like ambiverts in that situation.
I don't know the specifics of what areas you are strong at and what areas you are weak at, but I would try to come with areas where you can lead with your strengths.
Second before on line dating became a thing, how people generally met someone was through their friends. What I am going to suggest is that you both look for people to date through your friends, but that you also use your existing group of friends as a means to help you meet new people. Throw a dinner party or whatever you and your group of existing group of friends do together but also just invite one new person or ask your friends to invite a new person to your group.
Lastly look at the regular events in your life and try to see if there is a way of doing them in a way that is bit more socially friendly for you. So instead of getting your exercise going to the gym, join say CrossFit, where you are in a group of about 10 people who attend the same class with you every week or a couple of time each week. Similarly if you read a lot, join a book club or start a book club where you discuss some book that you have all read. Lastly look at volunteering for a cause you believe in. If there is candidate that you really believe in especially if they don't have a chance, join their campaign. But think of the problem this way, how many hours of the week are you spending where you can meet someone where its appropriate to ask them out or be asked out.
You most definitely are not explaining it well enough. I don't understand why you start a thread seeking thoughts on dating/socializing if, in fact, you aren't interested in dating/socializing.
You are the only one who can judge your level of desire, but what you portray to the discussion board when you start a thread seeking thoughts is that you ARE interested and want an active dating/social life. We can only go off of what you share here, and from my perspective it is very confusing.
Yes, I can see how that is confusing. I started this thread to just ask what I thought would be a fairly straightforward question, but the discussion ended up going back to a previous thread where I admitted that I don't pursue women. I didn't consider that it would spill over into this thread.
The questions I have about the dating world are asked out of genuine curiosity, and perhaps one day I'll be in that world. It's sort of like asking about what it's like to visit another country. Will I visit one day? Perhaps. I just have some questions about it first.
OP, you claimed in your first thread here that you are just reevaluating your choices to see if they still are the right choices for you. So are they?
I've been soaking up all the responses from this thread and others, and I'm not sure I've come to a conclusion yet as to what's right for me. If I'm being candid, I could just as easily see myself becoming a complete recluse, going off the grid and living in a van down by the ocean (river), OR, going in the other direction and making my life more interconnected with others. I can honestly see both of these options making my life more fulfilling. So, the right path for me is not yet clear.
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Originally Posted by BirdieBelle
I can't imagine why you would get SUCH extremely negative reactions from women unless your appearance is something that would cause that. Is that the problem???
I think I just look like an average person. Nothing weird. It was suggested by a friend of a friend that I give off some kind of "vibe" that made her uneasy the first time she met me, though she later admitted that she has a long, complicated history with men, so she said it may have been that. People at work have said that I can be hard to read. So, perhaps it's one of those things. I've asked friends, and they have no idea what these people are talking about. So, it's kind of a mystery.
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Originally Posted by BirdieBelle
I get a vibe of dissatisfaction in your posts. This doesn't appear to be a purely philosophical exercise.
I started reaching out and asking questions because I came to a crossroads in my life about three years ago. Every time I think I have a good handle on something, more questions come up. So, that's probably why you sense dissatisfaction in my posts. It's like, every time I think I've got something, it slips through my fingers.
Women in the world assume motives behind even the most benign interactions with men. You try to return a wallet and get a (very rude, IMO!) hand in your face. It's like you are perceived as some sort of an attacker or aggressor when you're just trying to exist and be a decent human in the world. I think you're saying that it is exhausting enough, feeling like women around you look at you with wrongful suspicion, that if you acted with any particular agenda or motivation to try and get a romantic companion, it would be even worse. And how does a man even go about doing that, if he is conscientious of the fact that women already feel excessively pursued by malekind and have automatic walls and defenses up against the merest gesture or glance? We speak to you as though you're cruising up to women in bars with cheeseball pickup lines, when you can't even walk past a woman at Applebee's on the way to the bathroom, without feeling like she is giving you side-eye. We ASSUME that you're trying and failing, when you're not even trying but still feeling judged and shut out.
Wow. Yes, you have absolutely nailed it on the head. I have read this multiple times, realizing that my words have absolutely failed me this whole time. You have explained it in a way that makes complete sense to me, and would probably make more sense to everyone else than anything I've posted so far. Thank you!
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Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
AfellowPerson, I'm sorry you've encountered unfriendly people. Not all of us are like that. I know it's tough, and I feel for ya. I hope you keep trying to connect, and I promise you, there is more to all of this than what's on the surface.
One last thought here... With many introverts I know (and I socialize with a lot of them, ironically) it's not so much that they full on cannot stand people or don't have the desire or ability to interact. It's more a matter of a need to find a group that feels comfortable, and sometimes a need to be able to split away in a smaller group for more focused conversation, rather than mingling on a larger scale. The comfort thing can often be helped along by finding social opportunities tied to something you're interested in or passionate about. Giving yourself a "reason to be there" rather than being just another guy in a bar or something. A feeling that you belong. That's one reason that I often recommend that people try to cultivate a hobby interest, or find people who gather around something they already care about. And socializing gets far easier with practice.
I appreciate your thoughtfulness and encouraging words! This "quest" of investigation/exploration is far from done and has truly given me much food for thought. I appreciate that you have an understanding about introverts. It's truly been touch and go in social situations. Over the past couple years, I've tried to find interests that will naturally involve social interaction that won't be too overwhelming for me, but will also give me an opportunity to challenge myself. It's just been a slow journey. I actually started to work on this over twenty years ago, but I think that it was kind of sidelined by the reactions I got to my presence. So, it's sort of like that journey has just sort of picked up where I left off.
Dude, theories (in science) are the expression of an idea intending to explain something. Then you test the theory and if the results don't match what was expected then the theory is proved WRONG and you develop a new theory for testing. BUT life isn't science.
Nothing is less attractive than a sulking, reclusive person. Staring at someone won't make them want to approach you. They have NO REASON AT ALL to want to approach you unless you show them. You don't do that by sitting on a bar stool.
To take the first paragraph of the two I quoted first, yes, you're correct about what theory means in scientific usage. Colloquially however it's more of a conjecture that may or may not be based in reality or be adjusted according to real-world feedback, heh. So IDK, accommodate that informal usage, IMO?
Regarding the second paragraph, that...can depend. I'm typically partial to sulking recluses, personally, perhaps due to the fact that I often am one myself. I've found that one can cultivate something of an air of mystery that way. Depends on the case though--I used to sit by myself regularly at bars, often either sulking or semi-sulking, but I was also selectively social. I'm decidedly not a fan of the sorts of conversation carried on by the average person--I needed to drink to make 'typical conversation' tolerable, but often I'd end up befriending someone with the benefit of lowered inhibition. OP might need to give it 14 more months of experimentation with a slightly tweaked approach, lol. Obviously personality plays a factor here--I'm selectively social but can vary from total recluse to 'life of the party' in the right circumstances.
Yes, it IS a mystery, because studies have shown that if you are attracted to someone, you are more likely to see a connection that isn't there. So, if you start with attractiveness, you are more likely to delude yourself into thinking the other traits are a good fit.
Halo Effect. 100% true. One of the greatest books ever written, Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman, taught me this among 100s of other things.
You need to stop reading studies and just start being naturally interested in other people, without an agenda.
Academic interest in psychology doesn't tend to emerge out of nowhere. It's due to a natural interest in other people. This is a cringe-worthy comment (and the sort of thing that makes a recluse out of me, heh). I don't know the OP, but speaking with the presumed solidarity of someone who also has extensive experience acting reclusively at bars, I can say it's often far easier to retreat to solo drinking with an insightful book rather than 'putting oneself out there' among what typically is a group or entire herd of uninteresting mediocrities.
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