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I'm in California. It seems that friendliness isn't out of the norm around here. My friends are mostly extroverted types, and they think it's not a big deal socializing with random people, and don't "get" why any of this is an issue. So, this tells me that it probably is just some kind of "vibe" I'm giving off, or some kind of social skill that I need to work on.
What part of California? I am a super friendly person, who also likes small talk. I am the sort of person who goes to a store once, returns a year later and the worker is excited I came back. I get hugs from retail workers after finishing up a transaction.
I live in Oakland - it is a friendly place. People say hi, no one thinks it is weird if you have a chat with the barista when getting your coffee. People walking by say good morning.
When I head over to San Francisco, it is like the big freeze. People react strangely if I chat with them while waiting for drinks at the bar. No one greets you if you walk through a door at the same time - or even holds the door for you. You don't always get acknowledged when walking into a store (I am black, so that adds on another layer). I hate going to SF these days - it used to not be like this, but has done a 180 in the last decade.
Jesus C. Get the bleep out of your head and start living life. You are absolutely your own worst enemy. If you want to date (fine), don't want to initiate or pursue (fine), the only other option is that the other person does the initiating/pursuing. For that to happen, you have to become someone another person wants enough to initiate/pursue. If that is never happening to you, then you're not that person right now. If you don't want to make the changes to become that person, you're SOL. If you do want to make those change, start doing it, now, today. It may take years or never happen, but you have to stop thinking and start doing.
Really damn simple. You're doing all these mental gymnastics to avoid the obvious. Stop rooster blocking yourself.
I think the mental gymnastics you're seeing in these posts are more from trying to explain myself to other people in this forum. I'm not really in my head about this stuff in the day-to-day. I may have been twenty years ago, but not anymore. If I'm going to change, it would be a complete paradigm shift in my fundamental beliefs, which will take some time. In the meantime, I've been reaching out to talk about various aspects of what I've observed.
Are you going to post a picture? You started this thread saying you're ugly, but now you're talking about a vibe. First let's figure out if you're ugly. If women don't find you attractive, vibes don't matter
No, I won't be posting a picture. But, your response kind of confirms my original question. You're implying that, if you're unattractive, people won't be interested in you.
What part of California? I am a super friendly person, who also likes small talk. I am the sort of person who goes to a store once, returns a year later and the worker is excited I came back. I get hugs from retail workers after finishing up a transaction.
I live in Oakland - it is a friendly place. People say hi, no one thinks it is weird if you have a chat with the barista when getting your coffee. People walking by say good morning.
When I head over to San Francisco, it is like the big freeze. People react strangely if I chat with them while waiting for drinks at the bar. No one greets you if you walk through a door at the same time - or even holds the door for you. You don't always get acknowledged when walking into a store (I am black, so that adds on another layer). I hate going to SF these days - it used to not be like this, but has done a 180 in the last decade.
You may be in a not very warm part of the state.
It's NorCal, Sacramento area. I don't think it's a "cold" part of the state. My friends say that people talk to them all the time. My best friend talks casually about people that he has met at the gym and the store, so I know it's possible. But, he's more extroverted, so maybe people pick up on that
Not to be mean, but you can be a 10, but if you come off as a weirdo, it doesn’t matter how you look. I’m sure everyone reading this thread is thinking the same thing, if this is what this guy is thinking in his head, how much more awkward is he in person.
No, I'm not thinking that. But I am also a former child prodigy; I know what it's like to suppress weirdness. I did it for a long time to great effect; these days, I'm not making much of an effort to do so physically anyway. Formerly though for years I would act far more 'normal' than I actually was. I could act the part. I still can and still am somewhat obligated to based on interactions with all the morons who surround me but I no longer care to make that much of an effort. If I ever moved to your state I'd probably be shot on sight, unless I happened to land in Austin under care of some benevolent south by southwest performer. This guy's apparently from NorCal, which is basically best possible area to be from in this country
That wasn't good advice, IMO. Especially for you. Where people mingle, who are shy or reticent, or uncomfortable making an "Approach", is in hobby groups, co-ed activities of various sorts (volunteering, playing sports/hiking/biking/boating, classes, various community activities). Sharing an activity with others allows them to get to know you over time and scope you out. Conversations tend to flow naturally over the common interest that's obviously shared. It's in contexts like this, that women might ask you out, or would in some way indicate they're into you.
Over the past few years, I have actually been involved in a volunteer type activity. Men and married women interact with me regularly, before, during and after the activities, but I have noticed very consistently that the single women in the group don't talk to me. Even when there is a group conversation that I'm a part of, they talk to others in the group, but not to me. So, even in this non-dating environment, either I'm making these women uncomfortable, or they are expecting ME to talk to THEM. But that makes no sense, right? Why would they not feel comfortable talking with me, when the men and married women do? The responses to my posts on this site would seem to indicate that a simple explanation is that this is just how it is. But, even in a non-dating environment?
Are you going to post a picture? You started this thread saying you're ugly, but now you're talking about a vibe. First let's figure out if you're ugly. If women don't find you attractive, vibes don't matter
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfellowPerson
Over the past few years, I have actually been involved in a volunteer type activity. Men and married women interact with me regularly, before, during and after the activities, but I have noticed very consistently that the single women in the group don't talk to me. Even when there is a group conversation that I'm a part of, they talk to others in the group, but not to me. So, even in this non-dating environment, either I'm making these women uncomfortable, or they are expecting ME to talk to THEM. But that makes no sense, right? Why would they not feel comfortable talking with me, when the men and married women do? The responses to my posts on this site would seem to indicate that a simple explanation is that this is just how it is. But, even in a non-dating environment?
Yes, of course. The reasons for this should be obvious. Seriously, do you have close female friends at all?
No, I won't be posting a picture. But, your response kind of confirms my original question. You're implying that, if you're unattractive, people won't be interested in you.
Sometimes a doctor will run diagnostic tests to eliminate certain diagnoses. I think that was part of the suggestion above. No one thinks you are doomed by your looks but rather elements evidenced in this thread.
.... don't like laying blame for things, in general, but I think a lot of women have developed a mindset toward men in the world that is not fair. Or rather, people have developed negative mindsets about other people, that are not fair. That's better. People shouldn't be judging and assuming as much as they/we do. Sometimes we do this because it keeps us safe, but we can be safe without assuming we know things about others, that we do not. From a woman's perspective (mine at least) I've had tons of guys tell me that all men are after one thing, and reinforce this idea that men do not see me, or any reasonably attractive woman, as a human being, but rather a toy to use and discard, that they don't care about my thoughts, feelings, or personhood AT ALL. It took a long time, and interaction with a lot of men (friendly interaction, I mean) to crystallize the fact in my brain that most men are decent human beings, and any man who tells me that crap is a.) Only speaking for himself, and b.) Probably has an agenda of his own.
I mean, we hear it in this forum, that guys are just like that and can't help it, they want one thing from women, and one thing only full stop. They are dogs seeing a steak. Period. Don't be delusional and think anything else.
Sorry players, you only get to speak for you. Because the numbers of men who simply have a human need to be seen, cared about, and loved, tell a whole different story. And it's about damn time that decent, good, compassionate people, took back the narrative. There is no gender war. We are all just smart-monkeys, flying through space on a rock together. And it would suck a lot less if we'd just be nice to each other..
Nearly Nobel worthy, especially those last three sentences.
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