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Were these women more or less comfortable around you after you did this?
Which women? The ones I quashed my attraction around? Depends...one I became good friends with, even to this day. Others...after a particularly bitter rejection in college I tried to sort of...shut down all feelings of attraction whatsoever. For the most part I think it worked, but the women I was most attracted to still got to me...I'd still go to stuttering, avoidant, awkward behavior around them, like I described in the thread I linked earlier. As a result I avoided them as much as possible...ignored them as much as possible...so I'm not really sure if they were more or less comfortable around me. Women I had lighter attraction for...I was able to stamp out my feelings entirely and conduct what business I had to with them. In fact I actively rooted out any feeling of attraction for anyone that started to grow, because I feared that it would become overpowering and provoke my avoidant behavior. The mental imagery I used was...a flower, growing through a crack in a sidewalk, and me crushing that flower underfoot. Telling myself "No, that sort of thing is not for you." Doing that neutered me emotionally, though. For a long time I felt neither happy nor sad. I was emotionally disengaged, so I was not an engaging person to be around. I was just...there. And people treated me accordingly...like I was just there. Not comfortable or uncomfortable...I was just part of the scenery, really.
In my opinion, I would flirt with every female whether you think they are interested or not. Ask them out, make your intentions known, flirt, etc...
Only exceptions would be married women or women in long term relationships.
That's what frame is. If you go by what you think they want, you are operating in their frame. If you go by what you want, you are operating in your own frame.
I understand that you get hurt by rejection when you try. The question is, why? Why does it bother you so much?
My opinion is that you are operating from a 'scarcity' mindset. You don't see all of the other opportunities out there. There are millions and millions of single women out there. It matters very little, even not at all, if a given women turns you down for a date.
Why? I said it earlier (in this thread? can't remember): I fear being romantically/sexually invalid. A person with null romantic and sexual value.
I have a long entanglement with rejection of all sorts. My formative social experiences were of being rejected...first year in school, kids ostracizing me...I'd stand alone on the playground every day at recess wondering why no one wanted me to play with them. A few years later I was kicked off the recess basketball court by The Popular Kid for screwing up a pass..."Get out of here!"...so that was the last time I tried to play with kids at recess. My next door neighbors (only kids on the block) were also Popular Kids...during summer we'd play and pal around (me being the only other kid around the neighborhood), but once school started they would have nothing to do with me.
My few attempts at fitting in with groups in my school years were awkward, cringey, and punished with social ridicule until I left the groups. In high school I had some friends but I was never invited to any get-togethers or study sessions or parties or any of the other shenanigans kids get up to...my interactions with my peers were solely through school and school events. I was bullied and made fun of throughout my school years (mostly due to my weight, painfully one time by the girl I had a crush on) and in high school went through what today would probably be considered sexual harassment by a group of guys always trying to get a rise out of me (they'd grab my butt, touch my breast, kiss me on the cheek, that sort of thing).
All of that to say...it left a profound impact on how I see myself in relation to other people. And I've found some success socially, but romantic success has been much more difficult. I feel doomed whenever romantic rejection happens. It tickles my great fear, of being excluded, forgotten, and unloved...things the illogical, unreasoning, basal, primitive part of my brain associates with death. With all that said, and put into perspective of the kind of fear I face...it's a wonder I've tried as much as I have.
The sexualists, those that have had lots of heavy sexual experience over time, are going to be intuitive enough to overlook attractiveness, and intuitively zero in on someone they would consider to be very good in bed, and someone they'd want to invest their time with. Nothing more horrifying is to get into bed with someone really attractive, and knows not what buttons to push to get the motors going. So! Then what?
Which women? The ones I quashed my attraction around? Depends...one I became good friends with, even to this day. Others...after a particularly bitter rejection in college I tried to sort of...shut down all feelings of attraction whatsoever. For the most part I think it worked, but the women I was most attracted to still got to me...I'd still go to stuttering, avoidant, awkward behavior around them, like I described in the thread I linked earlier. As a result I avoided them as much as possible...ignored them as much as possible...so I'm not really sure if they were more or less comfortable around me. Women I had lighter attraction for...I was able to stamp out my feelings entirely and conduct what business I had to with them. In fact I actively rooted out any feeling of attraction for anyone that started to grow, because I feared that it would become overpowering and provoke my avoidant behavior. The mental imagery I used was...a flower, growing through a crack in a sidewalk, and me crushing that flower underfoot. Telling myself "No, that sort of thing is not for you." Doing that neutered me emotionally, though. For a long time I felt neither happy nor sad. I was emotionally disengaged, so I was not an engaging person to be around. I was just...there. And people treated me accordingly...like I was just there. Not comfortable or uncomfortable...I was just part of the scenery, really.
What I am getting at is this. The reason you claim you don't want to approach and ask women out is that you assume that by doing so you could make these women uncomfortable, but it also seems that the steps you take to root out feelings of attraction that you feel for these women also make them feel uncomfortable, but in addition it "neuters you emotionally". That seems like a bad trade off for you that does not help women but does hurt you.
Because there is another option. You stop mind reading women and you ask them out. If they say yes, great, if they say no, you know where you stand and you move on. But it gets you out of this downward self pity shame spiral that you fall into.
What I am getting at is this. The reason you claim you don't want to approach and ask women out is that you assume that by doing so you could make these women uncomfortable, but it also seems that the steps you take to root out feelings of attraction that you feel for these women also make them feel uncomfortable, but in addition it "neuters you emotionally". That seems like a bad trade off for you that does not help women but does hurt you.
Because there is another option. You stop mind reading women and you ask them out. If they say yes, great, if they say no, you know where you stand and you move on. But it gets you out of this downward self pity shame spiral that you fall into.
Okay. You’re right. It’s been a long time since I took measures to crush out feelings of attraction as a matter of course whenever I felt them rising, and I recognize the damage I did to myself in doing that. How do you handle it if you’re attracted to someone you can’t ask out, for whatever reason?
Okay. You’re right. It’s been a long time since I took measures to crush out feelings of attraction as a matter of course whenever I felt them rising, and I recognize the damage I did to myself in doing that. How do you handle it if you’re attracted to someone you can’t ask out, for whatever reason?
Try masturbating and thinking about a different man?
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,989,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length
How do you handle it if you’re attracted to someone you can’t ask out, for whatever reason?
You go on living your damn life. I mean, seriously. What type of questions are these? You seem to ask question after question that have incredibly obvious answers. That's what we're referring to when talking about mental gymnastics. You create issues that don't exist to prevent yourself from doing anything and from seizing control over your life. Stop that. Unless, you really do want to have some sort of solo martyrdom going on, in which case, carry onward, you got it down.
Okay. You’re right. It’s been a long time since I took measures to crush out feelings of attraction as a matter of course whenever I felt them rising, and I recognize the damage I did to myself in doing that. How do you handle it if you’re attracted to someone you can’t ask out, for whatever reason?
I admit I only read this post in this thread, so I don't have all the back story.
But one fundamental aspect of your personality that I've been able to glean over the past year is you really seem addicted to predictable sequences. My advice would be to embrace chaos and unpredictability as part of the 'sequence' of life and your interactions with people.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,989,150 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by picardlx
I admit I only read this post in this thread, so I don't have all the back story.
But one fundamental aspect of your personality that I've been able to glean over the past year is you really seem addicted to predictable sequences. My advice would be to embrace chaos and unpredictability as part of the 'sequence' of life and your interactions with people.
I haven't notice that trend/didn't pay attention, but its generally good advice. If you need to know how things are going to unfold before taking the leap, life is not only going to be much more frustrating, but incredibly dull. Part of the serenity prayer type thinking is realizing we don't have control over things other than our actions.
You go on living your damn life. I mean, seriously. What type of questions are these? You seem to ask question after question that have incredibly obvious answers. That's what we're referring to when talking about mental gymnastics. You create issues that don't exist to prevent yourself from doing anything and from seizing control over your life. Stop that. Unless, you really do want to have some sort of solo martyrdom going on, in which case, carry onward, you got it down.
I think he is just pulling everyones leg now. I can't imagine any adult really/seriously asking questions like this.
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