Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You believe that the elect are choosen soley by God and that he absolutely will not save everyone.
By that standard you cannot demonstrate in the absolute sense that he has chosen you.
Saying God has chosen you will not move God to do what he has already determined to do.
Your claim of belief is moot, simply because God doesn't have to choose you simply because you believe anything.
You absolutely cannot demonstrate anything concerning you being chosen.
Claiming you are the elect means nothing. It is whether God decides you are, and you will not be able to demonstrate that in any way so you have no absolute assurance that you are chosen.
Those chosen by God, are called and believe...so, yes i do have assurance i say to the demon speaking through you...
Religion as a whole is a trap, I know a group of universalists who believe they are the elect and everyone elses belief are false unless you believe what they teach.
They believe a person must come under their (two people) teaching or you will be listening to the wrong spirit. They claim that no one else has this authority in the sense that they have not come across anyone else who they deem fitting to teach the truth.
They have "members" under their authority of the letter of the law.
Now many might argue to me that since they are universalists what does it matter.
Well it matters because despite my beliefs, there is demonstratable proof that it is worthy and righteous to lead people to live a good life on earth, to enjoy life and be spiritually free.
Though i believe Christian biblical universalism to be true, i understand that it will have a trend effect in some places. Some people will use it and sell it like others do Eternal Damnation. That is what men do, they pervert the message of the spirit to bend it to their own gains and in order to have power over others. Christian universalism is not exempt from the wiles of the serpent if you catch my meaning.
I agree that it is the example we set for others that is most important. That we should show the fruits of the spirit in our interactions with all others regardless of faith or creed or culture ... When we stop seeing the human and begin seeing the new creation in Christ that God will have all come to know in the fullness of times when the perfect has come ... when we look at a stranger, even an evil man, and can see god there waiting to make a difference in their lives, then we may begin seeing as through the eyes of God, seeing those things that are not as though they were ...
True religion is charity after all, to give of oneself, not only with material things, but even more so with the spiritual fruit of our lives. When we show compassion and love and when we honor and respect others and show humility and meekness and kindness and patience and joy ...
And then when the time comes the spirit will move you to confess with your mouth what you believe ... Either directly or indirectly, as the spirit moves in mysterious ways.
I believe that is the spiritual authority that we are given when the spirit is manifest in our lives and we are producing the fruits and gifts of the spirit which extend to others around us. And many people are aware of others who have spiritual authority, though perhaps only on a subconscious level. Such a person has a spiritual dispensation ...
However when we believe that our spiritual authority relies on our education and understanding of the doctrine and dogma of a particular religious tradition or the authority of one particular ministry or minister/pastor/teacher ... Then we have our spiritual eyes focused on the wrong thing to begin with and it is easy to fall under condemnation of the letter of the law which is always the base of any form of organized religion.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 06-28-2010 at 05:59 PM..
No...he did not agree with them...just as Christ did not agree with the Pharasee regarding the scriptures stating that we were gods....
Well who was the we he was referring to ? , if he meant what you are trying to say , why didn't he say since you are the offspring of God, instead of since we are ? .
No...They are the ones God has predestined...the ones He predestined are the ones He called and the ones He called are the ones He justified and the ones He justified are the ones He glorified...it is all in the past tense and therefore completed...
Yes!...the ones who love Him....I know what you are saying.
Israel...is who He came to save, and via Paul's epistles now realized...Jew and Gentile as Israel is justified now.
This is why it is so important to enter into Christ's covenant and become an Israelite, because only until then, are you justified.
Why it is so important to spred the gospel, so that His government does increase.
It's the other way around....salvation from death is the good news.
When the critical and ultimate summary of your professed "gospel" or the religion you espouse is that most of humanity who has ever lived will suffer everlasting unending torment in fire and that only a very few will be saved from such a fate even though they don't really deserve to be saved, i find it very difficult, nay ... rationally and spiritually impossible ... to agree with you about what you believe to be and so call "Good News".
I call it a divine nightmare and a Cosmic travesty of all that is True and Good and Pure ... A cosmic travesty of Love Faith and Hope in the true living God ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 06-28-2010 at 06:18 PM..
Those chosen by God, are called and believe...so, yes i do have assurance i say to the demon speaking through you...
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus said to whom?
The chosen... the elect... the judges... all apply to those JESUS SPOKE to. The results of the kingdom and new covenant are that ALL ARE SAVED. There was an obvious 40 year transition period between old and new covenant!
LET US ALL use our reading comprehension to determine that when someone is spoken to in the bible the person is to receive the message not people 2000+ years later.
When the critical and ultimate sumerry of your professed "gospel" or the religion you espouse is that most of humanity who has ever lived will suffer everlasting unending torment in fire and that only a very few will be saved from such a fate even though they don't really deserve to be saved, i find it very difficult, nay ... rationally and spiritually impossible ... to agree with you about what you believe to be "Good News".
I call it a divine nightmare and a Cosmic travesty of all that is True and Good and Pure ... A cosmic travesty of Love Faith and Hope in the true living God ...
I know and understand more than you can imagine...
Then prove what you said. Or remain silent. Put up or shut up!!!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
