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As long as we're allowed to post counter-arguments, and you agree that we're allowed to be critical of the source. We're not going to capitulate and just accept that you're right 'because you say so'.
Speaking of which, I'll set out some criteria for both sides of the discussion to consider:
1) Being expected to obey employment laws and/or the requirements or oaths relating to any form of employment is not considered 'forcing' someone to violate their religion.
2) Being held to the same legal standard as the rest of society (with regard to the equality of all citizens under US/Canadian law) is not 'discrimination' or 'persecution'.
3) Religious institutions, or government employees, do not get a 'free pass' to break or disobey any law just because their religion disagrees with it (I'm looking at you, Kim Davis and Roy Moore).
If you can agree to those terms, post away and we'll consider whatever you choose to provide. We won't guarantee that we'll accept it at face value, but we'll give it a critical once-over and point out what we consider to be inconsistencies or logical flaws.
I didn't realize you were a mod, or that you spoke on behalf of all atheists and non-religous folk here.
Something you (or even a group of you) find morally wrong does not equal a violation of your Constitutional rights. Let me be clear. That doesn't make any particular thing right or wrong. It's simply that your own sense of morality does not equate into a Constitutional right. You are perfectly free to practice your religion as you see fit. So is everybody else. So far, I haven't seen a single case of the government forcing private individuals to do anything that violates a standard provision of a recognized religion. (I suppose somebody can make something up, but I'm talking about mainstream organized religions.)
Individuals in the US do not get to pick and choose which government programs their taxes support. Taxes collected from pacifists may be used to pay for military programs. If you think the moon landing was faked, you cannot forbid the government from using your tax money to fund NASA. That's just the way it is.
We always welcome new threads that are relevant to Religion & Spirituality.
Well said.
The Founding Fathers did not establish a special set of rights under the Constitution for Special Snowflake Believers.
I didn't realize you were a mod, or that you spoke on behalf of all atheists and non-religous folk here.
I'm not. I'm trying to head off the same ridiculous arguments that come up whenever the subject is raised. You, yourself, are quite adept at side-stepping the discussion by claiming that the laws shouldn't apply if they don't support Christianity by default.
You see, I'm trying to disallow the possibility of your raising the intellectually-dishonest and illogical 'dodge-and-weave' tactics that you usually present. If you're going to present a viewpoint, we're going to criticize it from the perspective of logic and reason.
Besides, if we can beat an argument down by applying basic reasoning skills, it's probably not a very strong argument to begin with.
The Founding Fathers did not establish a special set of rights under the Constitution for Special Snowflake Believers.
Actually, they did. 9 of the original 13 states had official religions, and they didn't want any state or the Federal Government from telling them they couldn't practice their religion.
I'm not. I'm trying to head off the same ridiculous arguments that come up whenever the subject is raised. You, yourself, are quite adept at side-stepping the discussion by claiming that the laws shouldn't apply if they don't support Christianity by default.
I've never really said that. The fact that you think I have demonstrates the issue.
Quote:
You see, I'm trying to disallow the possibility of your raising the intellectually-dishonest and illogical 'dodge-and-weave' tactics that you usually present. If you're going to present a viewpoint, we're going to criticize it from the perspective of logic and reason.
And the fact that you refuse to look at what I actually say is the issue.
Actually, they did. 9 of the original 13 states had official religions, and they didn't want any state or the Federal Government from telling them they couldn't practice their religion.
So you're a Special Snowflake Believer! How fabulous for you.
This thought crossed my mind recently and it amused me. Could you imagine if non believing groups went doorknocking to try and deconvert Christians? Handing out tracts and little magazines. Do you think they'd be angry? I'm not sure. Some probably would be. Others would like the challenge. And there would be a few quacks that would protest and try to have "laws passed" to stop it. When I was in church I NEVER one time went on those silly doorknocking trips. I was to embarrassed. I mean how obnoxious!
Just as a side note, one of my relatives posted on her facebook page recently that she was awoken by her dog barking at 4 in the morning by a doorknocker putting church flyers and tracts in her screen door. Wow.
well you don't need too . you invaded and attempt to exclude us from politics , the educations systems , all forms of media , all forms of science and social media all forms of media from news to movies, yet in these all we do not get equal time or even allowed personal choices with out your nastiness.. time from your lies invading our lives , our history and in all parts of society .
No, neither of those things have anything at all to do with a person's Constitutionally guaranteed rights. Planned Parenthood does not take anybody's rights away. Neither does the ACA. Your opinions about birth control have nothing to do with your ability to practice your religion as you see fit. Kim Davis was jailed for contempt of court.
You can't claim anything you don't like to government doing is an infringement of your right to practice your religion.
Practicing our religion is not a series of actions. It is maintaining the standard of morality that God has declared for us. Kim Davis was jailed because she refused to endorse same sex marriage. The government created a law that infringed on her right to freely oppose SSM without consequences.
You want an example? How about using taxpayer money to fund Planned Parenthood? How about forcing the religious to offer birth control -- that which they are morally opposed to? http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/op...ghts.html?_r=0
Are you going to be that dishonest that you seriously make the statement that no Christian has had their 1st Amendment rights taken away?
Heck, the entire Kim Davis fiasco is another great example. There are politicians at every level of US government that refuse to enforce laws, but you won't take them to task...but Ms. Davis decides to refrain from this law and you freak out.
Since I am a Christian, not a Special Snowflake Believer, none of these things take away my rights as a Christian and/or American.
So you're a Special Snowflake Believer! How fabulous for you.
If you want to call me that since I just want my rights, ok. Fine. There are definitely worse things to be protesting, and there are worse things that are being protested.
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