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Of course it does. It destroys your statement that it was "in a book", and we shouldn't believe it because you don't believe that book. If it's in 65 other books, it has more credence to it, as they were not simply books that copied off of each other, but each is accredited in its own right, and they written by different authors at different times.
You believe a lot crazier notions, I'm sure, because someone told you something, or because you read it "in a book".
66 fanciful stories compiled into one book is still just a big book of fanciful stories.
You believe a lot crazier notions, I'm sure, because someone told you something, or because you read it "in a book".
All "notions" are not on an equal footing in the universe of ideas. Some are far more consequential and/or fantastical than others. And as such they must meet a higher burden of proof. The credence one legitimately gives any given "notion" therefore depends on a number of factors, including what you might term the "relative craziness" of it, but also, the credibility of the source, its falsifiability, the presence and quality of evidence and logical argument in its favor if any, and so on.
So when my wife told me this morning for instance that 60,000 people attended a Sanders rally in Oakland yesterday I considered the source of the information (a trusted confidante and former investigative journalist who I know from experience is reluctant to mention the most trivial thing as fact unless she has actually fact-checked it) and the import of the information (if in fact there were 42,000 or 112,000 people at the rally, or indeed if there was no rally at all in Oakland yesterday, or it was actually a Trump rally -- is that some kind of existential threat to me?) and did not look into it any further, even though that number is pretty remarkable, even for a Sanders event. Instead I placed the probability of that figure being reasonably accurate, as quite high without further investigation.
But if a total stranger on the Internet told me that his god will burn me in hell forever unless I love and trust him, and cited as authority the stranger's personal choice of holy book and religious dogma, then before acting on this information by, say, believing it or changing my entire worldview, I would want to be convinced that this is a credible and believable bit of information. And because it is an extraordinary claim it would need to come with extraordinary proof. And if the stranger simply repeated the assertions over and over, appealed to others repeating the same assertions, to his personal subjective interpretation of quotations from his holy book, and demanded I believe it without a requirement of substantiation on my part ... then I'm afraid that yes, I would be foolish to grant credence to that particular notion. In fact, I would place it so low on the scale of probability that I would not look into it much more if at all.
That is how reasonable and prudent people evaluate truth claims in different situations and contexts.
Of course it does. It destroys your statement that it was "in a book", and we shouldn't believe it because you don't believe that book. If it's in 65 other books, it has more credence to it, as they were not simply books that copied off of each other, but each is accredited in its own right, and they written by different authors at different times.
You believe a lot crazier notions, I'm sure, because someone told you something, or because you read it "in a book".
you know I find it real interesting how you seem to phrase that, if it's in 65 other books it must be true, there's just one problem with those other 65 books, they're all contained within the same book, a book to you that is known as the New Testament which is made up of 66 different stories of the life of a Jewish Rabbi and nothing more. Now don't get me wrong but the stories of that Jewish Rabbi are good and moral stories I'm sure, but just the same their're still stories which anybody could make up.I'm not telling anybody to not believe in your sacred book, I'm just merely stating that I don't believe in your sacred book. I do not believe in a lot of "crazy notions",there is nothing crazy about what I believe in. Maybe you should take a good hard look at what you believe, it may be a whole lot crazier than what you think I believe in.
All "notions" are not on an equal footing in the universe of ideas. Some are far more consequential and/or fantastical than others. And as such they must meet a higher burden of proof. The credence one legitimately gives any given "notion" therefore depends on a number of factors, including what you might term the "relative craziness" of it, but also, the credibility of the source, its falsifiability, the presence and quality of evidence and logical argument in its favor if any, and so on.
So when my wife told me this morning for instance that 60,000 people attended a Sanders rally in Oakland yesterday I considered the source of the information (a trusted confidante and former investigative journalist who I know from experience is reluctant to mention the most trivial thing as fact unless she has actually fact-checked it) and the import of the information (if in fact there were 42,000 or 112,000 people at the rally, or indeed if there was no rally at all in Oakland yesterday, or it was actually a Trump rally -- is that some kind of existential threat to me?) and did not look into it any further, even though that number is pretty remarkable, even for a Sanders event. Instead I placed the probability of that figure being reasonably accurate, as quite high without further investigation.
But if a total stranger on the Internet told me that his god will burn me in hell forever unless I love and trust him, and cited as authority the stranger's personal choice of holy book and religious dogma, then before acting on this information by, say, believing it or changing my entire worldview, I would want to be convinced that this is a credible and believable bit of information. And because it is an extraordinary claim it would need to come with extraordinary proof. And if the stranger simply repeated the assertions over and over, appealed to others repeating the same assertions, to his personal subjective interpretation of quotations from his holy book, and demanded I believe it without a requirement of substantiation on my part ... then I'm afraid that yes, I would be foolish to grant credence to that particular notion. In fact, I would place it so low on the scale of probability that I would not look into it much more if at all.
That is how reasonable and prudent people evaluate truth claims in different situations and contexts.
Ultimately, if you don't want to believe, that's your prerogative. I can't make you believe.
you know I find it real interesting how you seem to phrase that, if it's in 65 other books it must be true, there's just one problem with those other 65 books, they're all contained within the same book, a book to you that is known as the New Testament which is made up of 66 different stories of the life of a Jewish Rabbi and nothing more.
Actually, only 4 of them are directly about the "Jewish Rabbi"'s life. The rest all pertain to him, but are not explicitly telling the stories of how he lived.
But I find it interesting that you're automatically skeptical of them simply because they're found bound together into one big volume.
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Now don't get me wrong but the stories of that Jewish Rabbi are good and moral stories I'm sure, but just the same their're still stories which anybody could make up.I'm not telling anybody to not believe in your sacred book, I'm just merely stating that I don't believe in your sacred book.
You have that right. I know that when I spent some time studying them I realized that they were more than just a bunch of crazy stories. I have no idea how a Jewish man in the 1st Century could author a book like Romans, quoting as much as he did from other books of the Bible, with no computer, probably not even with the books available for him to read when he did it. After studying just that one book of the Bible, I came away saying that it was surely inspired.
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I do not believe in a lot of "crazy notions",there is nothing crazy about what I believe in. Maybe you should take a good hard look at what you believe, it may be a whole lot crazier than what you think I believe in.
I mean no disrespect. Again--I realize you're Native American, and I do not mean to make light of your culture, or your people. My point was that you consider my beliefs crazy. On the same note, many of the beliefs that you hold to may be considered "crazy" by the same standards.
Ultimately, if you don't want to believe, that's your prerogative. I can't make you believe.
Of course it is my prerogative and of course you can't control my beliefs. That goes without saying. But that has nothing at all to do with what I just said or the general arc of this conversation.
Or does it? Yes. Yes, I think it does. I think it's your way of saying, "I have no coherent refutation of your point about how claiming ptsum might believe some things with less evidence than others suggests that he has something like religious faith for far less credible ideas than mine. So I am just going to call you intransigent for not simply affording belief to what I want you to afford belief to, rather than actually engage with you on the topic at hand."
Actually, only 4 of them are directly about the "Jewish Rabbi"'s life. The rest all pertain to him, but are not explicitly telling the stories of how he lived.
But I find it interesting that you're automatically skeptical of them simply because they're found bound together into one big volume.
You have that right. I know that when I spent some time studying them I realized that they were more than just a bunch of crazy stories. I have no idea how a Jewish man in the 1st Century could author a book like Romans, quoting as much as he did from other books of the Bible, with no computer, probably not even with the books available for him to read when he did it. After studying just that one book of the Bible, I came away saying that it was surely inspired.
I mean no disrespect. Again--I realize you're Native American, and I do not mean to make light of your culture, or your people. My point was that you consider my beliefs crazy. On the same note, many of the beliefs that you hold to may be considered "crazy" by the same standards.
you know, it's interesting how I keep hearing from people who do not understand anything about my culture or belief who say things like, I do not mean to make light of your culture or your people and yet you do not take the time nor the effort to really know anything about my people or our culture, you merely assumed. Now I understand that maybe my cultural beliefs are not all that interesting to individuals such as yourself and that it has very little meaning to you because of your religious beliefs, apparently you think that your religious beliefs are far more superior than my own or anybody else's but I must say to you that your Christianity, in comparison to my cultural beliefs and to other religions is merely a child and has a long way to go to really gain any credibility. The history of your religious belief was forced upon people at the point of the sword throughout the many centuries, many lives were taken and destroyed because they did not believe in your religion. Nobody ever lost their life over my cultural belief or that of any of the Native American nations,we never fought over our beliefs and yet our cultural beliefs have been around many thousands of years before your Christianity was even thought of.
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